Homosexuality disordered/if you speak a foreign language please read this

[Norseman82]

Ah, but that's exactly why the Apostles said it is better not to marry. You can't have your cake and eat it too, you can't say that marriage is not about the individuals, but then talk about "happy and healthy." ​Happy and healthy by whose standards? It is society itself that provides those standards, and the personal happiness of either spouse is hardly necessary for a socially well-functioning marriage.

​Sorry, but I don't follow what you are getting at?

[Era Might]

​Sorry, but I don't follow what you are getting at?

​Sorry, was kind of a postscript to my response to Luigi. If we're going to hold up the traditional business of marriage, then things like personal happiness and fulfillment become almost unimportant. If someone is unhappy in their marriage, then they just have to accept it, because as Luigi said, it's about putting a roof over your head, having kids, making sure there is food on the table. That was true about society in general, you accepted your lot in life and your place in society and went with it. And I think that is still true today, people find their niche in the economy, and build a family life around it. But if that is what marriage is about, then my opposition to romanticism is even stronger, and that includes the romanticism of loneliness. If "making a family" is someone's goal, then they need to put aside feelings like loneliness, because those are irrelevant psychobabble...the machismo men of the traditional marriage find what they want, take it, and build a life...they don't sit around talking about how lonely they are because the can't find a wife. That kind of romanticism is a condition of modern marriage and psychology.

Edited May 4, 2015 by Era Might

[Norseman82]

​Sorry, was kind of a postscript to my response to Luigi. If we're going to hold up the traditional business of marriage, then things like personal happiness and fulfillment become almost unimportant. If someone is unhappy in their marriage, then they just have to accept it, because as Luigi said, it's about putting a roof over your head, having kids, making sure there is food on the table. That was true about society in general, you accepted your lot in life and your place in society and went with it. And I think that is still true today, people find their niche in the economy, and build a family life around it. But if that is what marriage is about, then my opposition to romanticism is even stronger, and that includes the romanticism of loneliness. If "making a family" is someone's goal, then they need to put aside feelings like loneliness, because those are irrelevant psychobabble...the machismo men of the traditional marriage find what they want, take it, and build a life...they don't sit around talking about how lonely they are because the can't find a wife. That kind of romanticism is a condition of modern marriage and psychology.

​Is such ruthlessness Christian, or is this part of a point you are trying to make?

[Didacus]

​Does it really? I had a French friend tell me it meant messy or unorganised rather than sick. That's terrible if it has the same psychological connotations in other languages as it does in English.

How disgusting that the authors of the catechism didn't think about how hurtful words and terms that pathologise those with SSA and paint them as ill would be to people - those who identify as gay, those who are Catholic and striving to be chaste, and their loved ones. Truly hurtful language. My disillusionment with this Church grows day by day. 

​You friend got it wrong and he strikes me as a dramatists looking for flaw.  I wouldn`t put too much worth on his words./opinions on the matter.

[Kia ora]

God said (see Genesis 2) that it is not good for man to be alone, and CCC 1603 states that the vocation to marriage is written into our very nature.

​well then st paul was one unnatural dude. so was jesus. 

 

 

[Socrates]

​well then st paul was one unnatural dude. so was jesus. 

 

 

​I believe "supernatural" is the word you're looking for.

[Kia ora]

yeaaaah i really don't see how that differs from what i've been saying.

let me repost:

1 corinthians7:

i take this to mean that marriage is not the order to which all of us are called anyway. marriage is a concession to our weakness. better to give up our weakness to god and sacrifice it. if the ability to conform our suffering to Christ is one of the greatest gifts we have been given, then let's suffer like christ in celibacy.

st paul said marriage is a concession to our passions, why shouldn't we pray for the grace of celibacy again?

Edited May 31, 2015 by Kia ora

[Nihil Obstat]

yeaaaah i really don't see how that differs from what i've been saying.

let me repost:

st paul said marriage is a concession to our passions, why shouldn't we pray for the grace of celibacy again?

More Catholics should pray for the grace of celibacy. It is the objectively higher calling, and we sorely need faithful priests and religious.

[Kia ora]

in catholic christianity is celibacy only restricted to the priests and the religious orders? what about lay people?

[Nihil Obstat]

in catholic christianity is celibacy only restricted to the priests and the religious orders? what about lay people?

A person in an order can be a layperson as well. Lay brothers and nuns. There are also consecrated virgins, hermits, and probably some others.

[Benedictus]

I have a question for those people who speak a language other than English. In English paragraph 2358 of the CCC that describes the homosexual orientation as "objectively disordered" sounds particularly harsh because the word 'disorder' in English has strong psychological connotations, so it sounds like the Church is passing a negative judgement on the mental health of SSA people. I was wondering if the word used for 'disordered' in non-English languages has a similar negative connotation in those languages, or if it's just an issue with English. I've cut and paste the sentence in a few different languages below for those who can speak them (or feel free to look up the section in your own language if it's not included below).

I guess this is quite important for me  because I have heard/read super conservative Catholics using this language to justify their view that homosexuality is an illness a few times and it really frustrates me that the Church would talk about gay people like that, so basically I'm hoping it's just an unfortunate coincidence in the English language that the two words are the same and that the connotation of illness/disease isn't there in other major languages too.

​it's meant in a theological sense but often misused in other ways too. Yes, my understanding is that it has the same stigma and problem in other languages as in English. There have been complaints about misuse of terms, or cross using, for some time. Many people don't care to note the differences though, mostly as it may well be their opinion such actions are theologically and psychologically disordered. It's unfortunate but that's the state of affairs for the time being.

[FutureLilSister]

Okay I took moral theology I'm about to shut it down. All your actions must be ordered to happiness, that is living for eternity with God. Anything that hiders that is considered "disordered". Nothing more to it.

[LaPetiteSoeur]

Nothing in this conversation so far about offering those struggling with SSA a way to change.  There are Christian organizations that do this.  Eventually I hope the Vatican catches up.  D. James Kennedy had one outfit in Fort Lauderdale FL that helped those struggling with SSA change, by the power of the Holy Spirit in large part.  Catholics need to broaden themselves and incorporate these extremely helpful elements that are for the most part being advocated by non-Catholic Christians.

Militant homosexuals (including those posing as "open-minded" heterosexuals) hate these charitable organizations because it puts them at odds with the world, but let us never allow them to frame the discussion to pretend these do not work.  Look into it yourself.  I am not going to debate it since the proof is there for those with eyes to see and a heart set on truth.  If you truly are seeking the truth and not just trying to see how far the Catholic Church can be pushed, then please search out these organizations and disregard the snide comments that will ensue from the haters of these good loving Christian organizations.

With Christ all things are possible.  All disorders and predispositions to sinful behavior can be overcome.

God Bless and guide!

E

​Courage seems to be an organization that supports what you are proposing. It is a group sanctioned by the Catholic Church. 

However, the success rate of "reparative therapy" is not high (http://www.ispn-psych.org/docs/PS-ReparativeTherapy.pdf) and there is no published scientific literature proving the success of reparative therapy. American Psychological Association opposes it, and homosexuality (or SSA) has been declassified as a mental illness and as a disease.