qfnol31 Posted June 13, 2004 Share Posted June 13, 2004 [quote name='Bruce S' date='Jun 12 2004, 03:20 PM'] The Holy Spirit isn't going to be CONFINED. [/quote] Why would the Holy Spirit go against Jesus? One of the things that I don't understand about the Charismatic Movement is that I know sometimes it can be distracting during Adoration or a Procession (I've seen this happen before). A lot of people attribute this to the Holy Spirit, but why would He take away attention from Jesus? It seems counterintuitive and since they have the same will, this seems really awkward. This goes with what Bruce S said, why would people leave Jesus behind for the Blessed Sacrament. This is one of the things that I do question about the Charismatic Movement. It seems to take away from Jesus' True Presence in the Blessed Sacrament. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickey's_Girl Posted June 13, 2004 Share Posted June 13, 2004 [quote name='yiannii' date='Jun 13 2004, 09:59 AM'] In my experience and others, talking in tongues is almost forced onto one. [/quote] I'm sort of sitting on the sidelines, here (well, I keep posting, but you know what I mean, right? My not being Catholic, and all), enjoying this thread immensely. p0lar_bear, I appreciate all your posts from the Holy Father. He is so cool. :wub: Yiannii--I hear what you're saying about feeling like tongues being "forced upon" one, because I've had that experience (not in my current church, but an "independent Pentecostal" one that I used to go to). In fact, there came a point where I was deeply skeptical of speaking in tongues. I saw that it was discussed in the Bible, and I believed that it was possible, but I just couldn't deal with the craziness in some people who practiced it. After several years (and a lot of thought and experience later) God softened my heart to it. I believed it to be biblical, and I realized that other people were not the issue (for me, at that time); I needed to worship the Holy Spirit and ask him to guide me. And I needed to listen to him. As I posted earlier, I have both spoken in tongues (in the congregation) and interpreted. It has only happened once. It was definitely God. I have also experienced the "prayer language" phenomenon, and I'm not quite sure about that, because I find theological distinctions between the two not terribly convincing. Yet when I use it, it is spontaneous, and pretty much only when I am praying [b]hard [/b]for someone and I've run out of words. And it doesn't happen often, either. Still trying to figure that one out (if it's God, where's the theology, if it's not, what is going on?). It could be cultural baggage that I have, too, being a lifelong Pentecostal. Not sure. At any rate, "the good" of speaking in tongues (as in, "what's the good of it?") for me has been a sensitivity to the Holy Spirit's voice. Being in a charismatic church, I have been sensitized to listen to him. I have come to know better when a thought or impression really is from God, or is just me. Case in point: the reason I'm at Phatmass, the reason I read Catholic apologetics, the reason I keep thinking about the Church, is because I feel the Holy Spirit's direction. Things ring true. I think I would have much more difficulty with the Catholic faith if I didn't trust the Holy Spirit's guidance. MG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P3chrmd Posted June 13, 2004 Share Posted June 13, 2004 It helps because some people prefer modern music and praying out loud and being very active! While some prefer the traditional music and being silent! As long as they are following the CATHOLIC CHURCH and the teachings, and a correct mass, then they are fine! Whatever gets people more active with God and closer to Jesus! Its like the eastern catholics...they have there own thing...but they are in complete aggrement with Rome...same should be said for Charismatic Catholics...but some catholics get scared of a guitar and drums Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archaeology cat Posted June 13, 2004 Share Posted June 13, 2004 It seems like people are equating "charismatic" with speaking in tongues. I guess they usually go together, but I consider myself to go to a charismatic church, and never is the service interrupted by people speaking in tongues. I know people around me are praying in tongues, but it would be disruptive to the service for people to just randomly speak in tongues, in my opinion. Of course, I'm fairly new to the charismatic thing. . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archbishop 10-K Posted June 13, 2004 Share Posted June 13, 2004 [quote]Or they left. My local church, over 1,000 families, are MOSTLY Charismatics who left the Catholic Church. [/quote] [quote]Eucharistic Adoration isn't what BUILT Christianity, and won't rebuild it either. [/quote] Unfortunately, Bruce, the reason I actually started caring about Jesus in the first place was the Catholic Church's traditional style, including Eucharistic Adoration and whatnot. The happy-go-lucky flavor of Christianity, IMO, felt somewhat diluted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archaeology cat Posted June 14, 2004 Share Posted June 14, 2004 I think the point is simply that you have a choice in Mass, whether it be traditional or charismatic, and that God accepts both types of worship as long as we are truly focusing on Him and not detracting from Him in any way. But I think everyone here has made that fairly clear, as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archbishop 10-K Posted June 14, 2004 Share Posted June 14, 2004 [quote name='shinobininjasp' date='Jun 13 2004, 08:02 PM'] I think the point is simply that you have a choice in Mass, whether it be traditional or charismatic, and that God accepts both types of worship as long as we are truly focusing on Him and not detracting from Him in any way. But I think everyone here has made that fairly clear, as well. [/quote] Amen to that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yiannii Posted June 14, 2004 Share Posted June 14, 2004 [quote name='p0lar_bear' date='Jun 14 2004, 02:16 AM'] In most cases, but not necessarily. I think it was St. John Bosco who had a number of boys at his school who would levitate...I don't think one would have considered them exceptionally advanced... But, the point was that your statement wasn't logical (i.e. I don't understand it's benefits therefore it must not be true). [/quote] What is your exact source for your statement for St. Don Bosco and his levitating students? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yiannii Posted June 14, 2004 Share Posted June 14, 2004 [quote name='qfnol31' date='Jun 14 2004, 06:00 AM'] Why would the Holy Spirit go against Jesus? One of the things that I don't understand about the Charismatic Movement is that I know sometimes it can be distracting during Adoration or a Procession (I've seen this happen before). A lot of people attribute this to the Holy Spirit, but why would He take away attention from Jesus? It seems counterintuitive and since they have the same will, this seems really awkward. This goes with what Bruce S said, why would people leave Jesus behind for the Blessed Sacrament. This is one of the things that I do question about the Charismatic Movement. It seems to take away from Jesus' True Presence in the Blessed Sacrament. [/quote] Exactly!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daugher-of-Mary Posted June 14, 2004 Share Posted June 14, 2004 [quote]Eucharistic Adoration isn't what BUILT Christianity, and won't rebuild it either.[/quote] The Eucharist is the source and summit of Christian life. The Church finds its strength at the Heart of Jesus, Truly Present on the altar. While Adoration isn't a necessity, it certainly serves to strengthen and renew the Church. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yiannii Posted June 14, 2004 Share Posted June 14, 2004 [quote name='Mickey's_Girl' date='Jun 14 2004, 06:25 AM'] I'm sort of sitting on the sidelines, here (well, I keep posting, but you know what I mean, right? My not being Catholic, and all), enjoying this thread immensely. p0lar_bear, I appreciate all your posts from the Holy Father. He is so cool. :wub: Yiannii--I hear what you're saying about feeling like tongues being "forced upon" one, because I've had that experience (not in my current church, but an "independent Pentecostal" one that I used to go to). In fact, there came a point where I was deeply skeptical of speaking in tongues. I saw that it was discussed in the Bible, and I believed that it was possible, but I just couldn't deal with the craziness in some people who practiced it. After several years (and a lot of thought and experience later) God softened my heart to it. I believed it to be biblical, and I realized that other people were not the issue (for me, at that time); I needed to worship the Holy Spirit and ask him to guide me. And I needed to listen to him. As I posted earlier, I have both spoken in tongues (in the congregation) and interpreted. It has only happened once. It was definitely God. I have also experienced the "prayer language" phenomenon, and I'm not quite sure about that, because I find theological distinctions between the two not terribly convincing. Yet when I use it, it is spontaneous, and pretty much only when I am praying [b]hard [/b]for someone and I've run out of words. And it doesn't happen often, either. Still trying to figure that one out (if it's God, where's the theology, if it's not, what is going on?). It could be cultural baggage that I have, too, being a lifelong Pentecostal. Not sure. At any rate, "the good" of speaking in tongues (as in, "what's the good of it?") for me has been a sensitivity to the Holy Spirit's voice. Being in a charismatic church, I have been sensitized to listen to him. I have come to know better when a thought or impression really is from God, or is just me. Case in point: the reason I'm at Phatmass, the reason I read Catholic apologetics, the reason I keep thinking about the Church, is because I feel the Holy Spirit's direction. Things ring true. I think I would have much more difficulty with the Catholic faith if I didn't trust the Holy Spirit's guidance. MG [/quote] Thank you for your honest reflection on this topic. But I would like to stress that just because one isn't interested in the charasimatic renewal doesn't mean they aren't open to the Holy Spirit. I am personally not in favour of the Pentecostal movement, for a number of reasons, but I still am open to the gifts of the Spirit which are defined as: wisdom, understanding, counsel, fortitude, knowledge, piety, and fear of the Lord. These gifts were given to me at my Baptisim and were strengthened at my Conformation, Catholics have always believed this. I have many reservations about the Charismatic renewal, those reservations have already been expressed in previous posts. I read p0lar_bear's quotes from the Holy Father but am still unconvinced that he was specifically talking about talking in tongues. Yes he was talking about the gifts of the Spirit but that doesn't necessarily mean talking in tongues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yiannii Posted June 14, 2004 Share Posted June 14, 2004 [quote name='P3chrmd' date='Jun 14 2004, 06:51 AM'] It helps because some people prefer modern music and praying out loud and being very active! While some prefer the traditional music and being silent! As long as they are following the CATHOLIC CHURCH and the teachings, and a correct mass, then they are fine! Whatever gets people more active with God and closer to Jesus! Its like the eastern catholics...they have there own thing...but they are in complete aggrement with Rome...same should be said for Charismatic Catholics...but some catholics get scared of a guitar and drums [/quote] I guess a lot of Catholics are scareed of a guitar and drums because they are afraid that it will lead to irreverent Masses and a loss in reverence and appreciation of the Blessed Sacrament, as they have seen countless times before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yiannii Posted June 14, 2004 Share Posted June 14, 2004 Nothing should take attention away from the Sacrifice and His Real Presence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickey's_Girl Posted June 14, 2004 Share Posted June 14, 2004 Eucharistic Adoration: :wub: MG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qfnol31 Posted June 14, 2004 Share Posted June 14, 2004 [quote name='yiannii' date='Jun 13 2004, 09:07 PM'] Nothing should take attention away from the Sacrifice and His Real Presence. [/quote] I agree. Since Their wills are one, then it would be wrong for us to say They contradict each other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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