Nihil Obstat Posted March 23, 2015 Share Posted March 23, 2015 From Libertas by Pope Leo XIII: 19. To make this more evident, the growth of liberty ascribed to our age must be considered apart in its various details. And, first, let us examine that liberty in individuals which is so opposed to the virtue of religion, namely, the liberty of worship, as it is called. This is based on the principle that every man is free to profess as he may choose any religion or none. 20. But, assuredly, of all the duties which man has to fulfill, that, without doubt, is the chiefest and holiest which commands him to worship God with devotion and piety. This follows of necessity from the truth that we are ever in the power of God, are ever guided by His will and providence, and, having come forth from Him, must return to Him. Add to which, no true virtue can exist without religion, for moral virtue is concerned with those things which lead to God as man's supreme and ultimate good; and therefore religion, which (as St. Thomas says) "performs those actions which are directly and immediately ordained for the divine honor",(7) rules and tempers all virtues. And if it be asked which of the many conflicting religions it is necessary to adopt, reason and the natural law unhesitatingly tell us to practice that one which God enjoins, and which men can easily recognize by certain exterior notes, whereby Divine Providence has willed that it should be distinguished, because, in a matter of such moment, the most terrible loss would be the consequence of error. Wherefore, when a liberty such as We have described is offered to man, the power is given him to pervert or abandon with impunity the most sacred of duties, and to exchange the unchangeable good for evil; which, as We have said, is no liberty, but its degradation, and the abject submission of the soul to sin. 21. This kind of liberty, if considered in relation to the State, clearly implies that there is no reason why the State should offer any homage to God, or should desire any public recognition of Him; that no one form of worship is to be preferred to another, but that all stand on an equal footing, no account being taken of the religion of the people, even if they profess the Catholic faith. But, to justify this, it must needs be taken as true that the State has no duties toward God, or that such duties, if they exist, can be abandoned with impunity, both of which assertions are manifestly false. For it cannot be doubted but that, by the will of God, men are united in civil society; whether its component parts be considered; or its form, which implies authority; or the object of its existence; or the abundance of the vast services which it renders to man. God it is who has made man for society, and has placed him in the company of others like himself, so that what was wanting to his nature, and beyond his attainment if left to his own resources, he might obtain by association with others. Wherefore, civil society must acknowledge God as its Founder and Parent, and must obey and reverence His power and authority. Justice therefore forbids, and reason itself forbids, the State to be godless; or to adopt a line of action which would end in godlessness-namely, to treat the various religions (as they call them) alike, and to bestow upon them promiscuously equal rights and privileges. Since, then, the profession of one religion is necessary in the State, that religion must be professed which alone is true, and which can be recognized without difficulty, especially in Catholic States, because the marks of truth are, as it were, engravers upon it. This religion, therefore, the rulers of the State must preserve and protect, if they would provide - as they should do - with prudence and usefulness for the good of the community. For public authority exists for the welfare of those whom it governs; and, although its proximate end is to lead men to the prosperity found in this life, yet, in so doing, it ought not to diminish, but rather to increase, man's capability of attaining to the supreme good in which his everlasting happiness consists: which never can be attained if religion be disregarded. 22. All this, however, We have explained more fully elsewhere. We now only wish to add the remark that liberty of so false a nature is greatly hurtful to the true liberty of both rulers and their subjects. Religion, of its essence, is wonderfully helpful to the State. For, since it derives the prime origin of all power directly from God Himself, with grave authority it charges rulers to be mindful of their duty, to govern without injustice or severity, to rule their people kindly and with almost paternal charity; it admonishes subjects to be obedient to lawful authority, as to the ministers of God; and it binds them to their rulers, not merely by obedience, but by reverence and affection, forbidding all seditious and venturesome enterprises calculated to disturb public order and tranquillity, and cause greater restrictions to be put upon the liberty of the people. We need not mention how greatly religion conduces to pure morals, and pure morals to liberty. Reason shows, and history confirms the fact, that the higher the morality of States; the greater are the liberty and wealth and power which they enjoy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Credo in Deum Posted March 23, 2015 Share Posted March 23, 2015 Man is obligated to choose truth. This is why God gave us reason and a will. Also I did not read the entire document, only what you posted, so I selected no to your second question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted March 23, 2015 Author Share Posted March 23, 2015 Man is obligated to choose truth. This is why God gave us reason and a will. Also I did not read the entire document, only what you posted, so I selected no to your second question. A month or two ago I made a point to read (and/or re-read) Immortale Dei, Diuternum, and Libertas by Pope Leo. Really great encyclicals, and they are helping me sort out what the Church actually does teach about our faith in public life. I do not think enough people read those encyclicals, personally. I would definitely recommend them though. Especially with American elections coming up, and all the myriad ways the world kind of sucks right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basilisa Marie Posted March 23, 2015 Share Posted March 23, 2015 I'd rather live in a state where all religions have the same, or very similar, set of rights of public exercise than live in a state where one religion is adopted to the preclusion of others. Even if it was a Catholic state, who's to say that our religion wouldn't eventually fall out of favor and another religion gets adopted by the state? It's true that people have an obligation to seek and embrace truth, but there's a point where we can't force it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted March 23, 2015 Author Share Posted March 23, 2015 I'd rather live in a state where all religions have the same, or very similar, set of rights of public exercise than live in a state where one religion is adopted to the preclusion of others. Even if it was a Catholic state, who's to say that our religion wouldn't eventually fall out of favor and another religion gets adopted by the state? It's true that people have an obligation to seek and embrace truth, but there's a point where we can't force it. Other religions might be tolerated out of prudence. That seems to be the situation most of the world is in right now. But it is not the ideal to shoot for. But if a State is Catholic, public authorities have an obligation to profess the true faith publicly, and to promote the Church. "For public authority exists for the welfare of those whom it governs; and, although its proximate end is to lead men to the prosperity found in this life, yet, in so doing, it ought not to diminish, but rather to increase, man's capability of attaining to the supreme good in which his everlasting happiness consists: which never can be attained if religion be disregarded." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basilisa Marie Posted March 23, 2015 Share Posted March 23, 2015 Other religions might be tolerated out of prudence. That seems to be the situation most of the world is in right now. But it is not the ideal to shoot for. But if a State is Catholic, public authorities have an obligation to profess the true faith publicly, and to promote the Church. "For public authority exists for the welfare of those whom it governs; and, although its proximate end is to lead men to the prosperity found in this life, yet, in so doing, it ought not to diminish, but rather to increase, man's capability of attaining to the supreme good in which his everlasting happiness consists: which never can be attained if religion be disregarded." Right, it's not the ideal to shoot for. I might be a pessimist, but I have a hard time imagining how we'd ever be in a position to reach an ideal with a Catholic state, without it ending in some kind of theistic revolution against the Church. Sinful, fallible humans and all that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted March 23, 2015 Author Share Posted March 23, 2015 Right, it's not the ideal to shoot for. I might be a pessimist, but I have a hard time imagining how we'd ever be in a position to reach an ideal with a Catholic state, without it ending in some kind of theistic revolution against the Church. Sinful, fallible humans and all that. Every aspect of life is a journey. No political system is ever going to be perfect, but the best I can shoot for is that some things are right some of the time. In today's climate I am sure that is correct - most countries could not handle a Catholic confessional state. But who knows where things are going. Perhaps we are on the brink of a total collapse of the western world. Perhaps there will be a major culture change that totally changes the political landscape of the world. Perhaps things keep going the way they are, in which case holy croutons do we ever need some Catholicism in public life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrossCuT Posted March 23, 2015 Share Posted March 23, 2015 I think we should just not have any religion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ice_nine Posted March 23, 2015 Share Posted March 23, 2015 ok john lennon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrossCuT Posted March 23, 2015 Share Posted March 23, 2015 I dont mind being John Lennon so long as I can have his fortune...but I dont want to get shot. Ill pass on that part. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted March 23, 2015 Author Share Posted March 23, 2015 John Lennon was kind of a sociopath. He physically abused his partners. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4588686 Posted March 23, 2015 Share Posted March 23, 2015 Power used for you can always be used against you. Society is becoming less religious. Let's all use our critical thinking skills to fill in the gaps here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted March 23, 2015 Author Share Posted March 23, 2015 Power used for you can always be used against you. Society is becoming less religious. Let's all use our critical thinking skills to fill in the gaps here. Yep, it is unfortunate. But the Church is mostly missing from modern society, and we are lost without Her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anomaly Posted March 23, 2015 Share Posted March 23, 2015 Yep, it is unfortunate. But the Church is mostly missing from modern society, and we are lost without Her. The Church lost it's role and position in society as the moral leader and example when it significantly and repeatedly failed at practicing what it preaches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted March 23, 2015 Author Share Posted March 23, 2015 The Church lost it's role and position in society as the moral leader and example when it significantly and repeatedly failed at practicing what it preaches. Then you have no moral leaders period, including yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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