God Is LOVE

[Credo in Deum]

​Also, it seems you have very selective reading, I am afraid.

"You are of your father the devil, because you do your father's bidding." John 8:44

"And seeing many of the pharisees and sadducees coming to his baptism, he said to them: Ye brood of vipers, who hath shewed you to flee from the wrath to come? Bring therefore fruit worthy of penance. And think not to say within yourselves "We have Abraham for our father. For I tell you that God is able of these stones to raise up children to Abraham. For now the axe is laid to the root of the trees. Every tree therefore that doth not yield good fruit, shall be cut down, and cast into the fire... but he that is mighter than I.... will thoroughly cleanse his floor and gather his wheat into the barn; but the chaff he will burn with unquenchable fire." -- Matthew 2:7-12

"And when he had made, as it were, a scourge of little cords, he drove them all out of the temple, the sheep also and the oxen, and the money of the changers he poured out, and the tables he overthrew." John 2:15

If that's not fire and brimstone preaching, I don't know what is. Here we have both Jesus and Saint John the Baptist calling people sons of Satan (which is not conducive to their conversion, mind you), whipping people, preaching about hell and punishment, and running people out of a place of worship. This overly nice image of Jesus and the Saints you seem to have is misguided and wrong at best and spiritually dangerous at worse.

He also turned over tables and whipped people!  A fanatic for sure.  

[AccountDeleted]

​Also, it seems you have very selective reading, I am afraid.

"You are of your father the devil, because you do your father's bidding." John 8:44

"And seeing many of the pharisees and sadducees coming to his baptism, he said to them: Ye brood of vipers, who hath shewed you to flee from the wrath to come? Bring therefore fruit worthy of penance. And think not to say within yourselves "We have Abraham for our father. For I tell you that God is able of these stones to raise up children to Abraham. For now the axe is laid to the root of the trees. Every tree therefore that doth not yield good fruit, shall be cut down, and cast into the fire... but he that is mighter than I.... will thoroughly cleanse his floor and gather his wheat into the barn; but the chaff he will burn with unquenchable fire." -- Matthew 2:7-12

"And when he had made, as it were, a scourge of little cords, he drove them all out of the temple, the sheep also and the oxen, and the money of the changers he poured out, and the tables he overthrew." John 2:15

If that's not fire and brimstone preaching, I don't know what is. Here we have both Jesus and Saint John the Baptist calling people sons of Satan (which is not conducive to their conversion, mind you), whipping people, preaching about hell and punishment, and running people out of a place of worship. This overly nice image of Jesus and the Saints you seem to have is misguided and wrong at best and spiritually dangerous at worse.

​

You have obviously missed the post I made to Credo in response to his same claim about Jesus' preaching. He was God. He was perfect. He knew what heaven and hell were all about and He also knows about God's mercy and love for us. So yes, selective reading means I focus on the kindness and mercy of God - the 'God is Love' part, rather than the 'hellfire and damnation part'. If I had come to God through fear, I know I wouldn't be around today. I came to Him through His love for us in the incarnation of His Son, who died for us. I worked with people who lived this love and learned about Catholicism through love, not fear and not self-righteousness. Through the humility of those who love Jesus and see Him in their brother and sister. This was my path and this is how God seduced me - not through fear and intimidation and self-righteous and judgmental ranting by a person who is as imperfect as I am. Voris would do well to spend a little time with the MCs to learn humility. My opinion, my right to have an opinion. There are ways to teach (I have a Master of Education) and one of them is to humiliate or browbeat the student - not very effective in the long one, or to encourage, motivate, support, and assist the student to an understanding of how the rules help. 

[PhuturePriest]

​

You have obviously missed the post I made to Credo in response to his same claim about Jesus' preaching. He was God. He was perfect. He knew what heaven and hell were all about and He also knows about God's mercy and love for us. So yes, selective reading means I focus on the kindness and mercy of God - the 'God is Love' p[art, rather than the 'hellfire and damnation part'. If I had come to God through fear, I know I wouldn't be around today. I came to Him through His love for us in the incarnation of His Son, who died for us. I worked with people who lived this love and learned about Catholicism through love, not fear and not self-righteousness. Through the humility of those who love Jesus and see Him in their brother and sister. This was my path and this is how God seduced me - not through fear and intimidation and self-righteous and judgmental ranting by a person who is a imperfect as I am. Voris would do well to spend a little with the MCs to learn humilty. My opinion, my right to have an opinion. There are ways to teach (I have a Master of Education) and one of them is to humiliate or browbeat the student - not very effective in the long one, or to encourage, motivate, support, and assist the student to an understanding of how the rules help. 

​In your opinion (most humble, I'm sure), Saint Augustine, Saint Polycarp, Venerable Fulton Sheen, Saint Ignatius, Saint John the Baptist, Saint Paul, Saint James, Saint Patrick, Saint Nicholas, Saint Padre Pio, Saint John Vianney, etc. were all self-righteous and proud people who simply weren't compassionate, loving, and humble enough. If that is not the essence of a prideful statement, I'm not sure what is.

[Ice_nine]

Miles literally just said that.

​If you look at my first post I said "anyone (besides FP)." Didn't want to be too redundant. Maybe that's not fair, oh well. Either way him vouching for people doesn't count. I just can't see a substantial number of people being positively affected by his preaching. Why is that such a terrible thing to say? I'm sure Voris would be thick-skinned enough to handle it. Maybe he would make a response video. That would be cool, it would almost be like getting roasted.

Is my opinion really that offensive? Nevermind then, Voris is amesome and his style would never lead anyone away from Catholicism ever and it's totally ok to be abrasive so long as your ends are righteous.

[PhuturePriest]

​If you look at my first post I said "anyone (besides FP)." Didn't want to be too redundant. Maybe that's not fair, oh well. Either way him vouching for people doesn't count. I just can't see a substantial number of people being positively affected by his preaching. Why is that such a terrible thing to say? I'm sure Voris would be thick-skinned enough to handle it. Maybe he would make a response video. That would be cool, it would almost be like getting roasted.

Is my opinion really that offensive? Nevermind then, Voris is amesome and his style would never lead anyone away from Catholicism ever and it's totally ok to be abrasive so long as your ends are righteous.

​Credo also confirmed his faith was brought to vibrancy through Voris.

[AccountDeleted]

​In your opinion (most humble, I'm sure), Saint Augustine, Saint Polycarp, Venerable Fulton Sheen, Saint Ignatius, Saint John the Baptist, Saint Paul, Saint James, Saint Patrick, Saint Nicholas, Saint Padre Pio, Saint John Vianney, etc. were all self-righteous and proud people who simply weren't compassionate, loving, and humble enough. If that is not the essence of a prideful statement, I'm not sure what is.

​Well, you certainly have me pegged, don't you? From a discussion about how people respond to different preaching styles differently to a personal attack on how full of pride I am because I dare to have a different opinion than a 'future priest' does. Very nonjudgmental of you.

But do you ever come off that high horse and act like a human being? I am so glad that you are on a par with all your calendar of saints and see no need for love or mercy or compassion in trying to explain the faith. It is people like you and Voris who keep my brothers and sisters from ever wanting to convert to Catholicism. They don't see the purity of your list of saints who, like you and Voris, tell them how doomed they are to hell -  all they see are Catholics like yourself who want to condemn the world because you are not only 'cradle' but you are also 'righteous' and therefore more deserving of 'God's Love' than they could ever hope to be. Well done, Mr Evangelist. 

I stand by what I have said. Honey not vinegar. Maybe Credo and you would have converted from Voris or come closer to your faith, but there are many people who are turned off my him --- that's why I said different strokes.

Jesus not only preached the tough stuff - he also healed the sick, restored the dead to life and forgave sins -- can you and Voris do those things too? Wow. No pride there.

[AccountDeleted]

Credo - you might want to move this to the Debate Table since it seems to have turned into a Debate and I feel under attack by FP. Open Mic doesn't seem the right place for this kind of vitriol.

[Ice_nine]

ok so there's two people. To be fair I'm probably not working with a great sample size, and I'm not about to go conduct a survey or anything. All I did was state my opinion and I'm not going to change it until I see evidence to. But then again I'm not going to put much energy into finding this evidence. If Voris is converting people great, but my fear is that his style does more to turn weak people away from God than to help them.

Sometimes I watch Mother Angelica reruns, and she certainly didn't shy away from talking about sin, evil, necessity of confession, but she did it in a way that wasn't so abrasive. With Voris I feel like his style says "well if you don't listen to me (i.e. the church because we're always in perfect concert) you're going to hell. smells of elderberries to be you. *wipes dirt off his sandles*

but hey whatever floats your boat weirdos

[PhuturePriest]

​Well, you certainly have me pegged, don't you? From a discussion about how people respond to different preaching styles differently to a personal attack on how full of pride I am because I dare to have a different opinion than a 'future priest' does. Very nonjudgmental of you.

But do you ever come off that high horse and act like a human being? I am so glad that you are on a par with all your calendar of saints and see no need for love or mercy or compassion in trying to explain the faith. It is people like you and Voris who keep my brothers and sisters from ever wanting to convert to Catholicism. They don't see the purity of your list of saints who, like you and Voris, tell them how doomed they are to hell -  all they see are Catholics like yourself who want to condemn the world because you are not only 'cradle' but you are also 'righteous' and therefore more deserving of 'God's Love' than they could ever hope to be. Well done, Mr Evangelist. 

I stand by what I have said. Honey not vinegar. Maybe Credo and you would have converted from Voris or come closer to your faith, but there are many people who are turned off my him --- that's why I said different strokes.

Jesus not only preached the tough stuff - he also healed the sick, restored the dead to life and forgave sins -- can you and Voris do those things too? Wow. No pride there.

​Again, you seem to have the issue of selective reading. Did I not say several posts ago that admonishing sinners without mercy, love, and compassion is an act of self-righteousness, which should always be avoided?

Isn't it rather judgmental of you to tell me that I'm being judgmental?

You keep making assumptions based off the very little that you know of these people. I know people who know Michael Voris personally. I spent eight days with a guy who worked under him for years. And all I've heard is nothing but how much of a gracious, nice, devout, and pleasant guy he is to talk to and be around. He is a very kind and loving person. He has a focus on admonishing sinners and exposing the corruptions in the Church, but that is done out of love and duty from that love, not superiority. If you truly love the Church, you will defend it when it is being attacked. If you truly love Christ, you will defend him when people make lies about him. Tolerating error out of keeping the peace is not love, it is cowardice and pride.

[PhuturePriest]

Credo - you might want to move this to the Debate Table since it seems to have turned into a Debate and I feel under attack by FP. Open Mic doesn't seem the right place for this kind of vitriol.

​This is a debate. I'm not attacking your person, I'm contesting your position and outlook on how we should live out the faith. I've received much worse treatment, and I'm sure you have as well. Please don't make mountains out of molehills. I don't have "vitriol" towards you, and that seems like a pathetic attempt to gain sympathy and peg me as some bully. I'm 18. You're old enough to be my mother. I'm sure you can handle whatever sort of "vitriol" that I have to throw at you, and if you can't, participation in this debate isn't necessary.

[AccountDeleted]

​Again, you seem to have the issue of selective reading. Did I not say several posts ago that admonishing sinners without mercy, love, and compassion is an act of self-righteousness, which should always be avoided?

Isn't it rather judgmental of you to tell me that I'm being judgmental?

You keep making assumptions based off the very little that you know of these people. I know people who know Michael Voris personally. I spent eight days with a guy who worked under him for years. And all I've heard is nothing but how much of a gracious, nice, devout, and pleasant guy he is to talk to and be around. He is a very kind and loving person. He has a focus on admonishing sinners and exposing the corruptions in the Church, but that is done out of love and duty from that love, not superiority. If you truly love the Church, you will defend it when it is being attacked. If you truly love Christ, you will defend him when people make lies about him. Tolerating error out of keeping the peace is not love, it is cowardice and pride.

​

Now you call me a coward. Whew. That really shuts my mouth, doesn't it?

My assumptions are based on the way that Voris preaches and my reaction to it -- as I have said repeatedly, some people might really like being preached to in that way - obviously they do. As an individual I have stated my opinions of his preaching style as it relates to me and those I know and love. 

Your idea of defending the Church and Christ is different than mine. Mine goes more along the lines of turning the other cheek and carrying their pack etc. My Christ is much more human than you or Voris. I love my Christ. My family love my Christ. But they aren't so keen on His so-called Christians.

[PhuturePriest]

​

Now you call me a coward. Whew. That really shuts my mouth, doesn't it?

My assumptions are based on the way that Voris preaches and my reaction to it -- as I have said repeatedly, some people might really like being preached to in that way - obviously they do. As an individual I have stated my opinions of his preaching style as it relates to me and those I know and love. 

Your idea of defending the Church and Christ is different than mine. Mine goes more along the lines of turning the other cheek and carrying their pack etc. My Christ is much more human than you or Voris. I love my Christ. My family love my Christ. But they aren't so keen on His so-called Christians.

​So now I, Voris, and all the Saints I stated previously are not "true Christians"? Not judgmental at all. I certainly feel you "carrying my pack"  and "turning the other cheek" right now.

[Ice_nine]

 

You keep making assumptions based off the very little that you know of these people. I know people who know Michael Voris personally. I spent eight days with a guy who worked under him for years. And all I've heard is nothing but how much of a gracious, nice, devout, and pleasant guy he is to talk to and be around. He is a very kind and loving person.

​oops, error 404 not found. I can't see any personal attacks being made on Voris's character. Maybe I missed it with the funny way PM has been acting

[Ice_nine]

yeah this thread is probs gonna get locked. DRATS.

[AccountDeleted]

​So now I, Voris, and all the Saints I stated previously are not "true Christians"? Not judgmental at all. I certainly feel you "carrying my pack"  and "turning the other cheek" right now.

​Do you really not understand what a quote is? 

As for turning my cheek with you - I have not been reduced to calling you names like you have done with me. If that isn't turning the cheek, I don't know what is. And as for carrying your pack, I have said over and over again that you have every right to like Voris's preaching style, simply that I don't.

As for being judgmental, I am not judging your opinion or your right to it - simply stating over and over again, ad nauseam, that I disagree with your point of view. That is a judgment on the preaching style, not on you, not on Voris, not on the saints you quoted to support your point of view. Everything in life is open to interpretation and I happen to focus more on the love and mercy of God, rather than on admonishing others for not being up to my standard, which it appears that you and Voris do. In my opinion. 

Am I judging? Yes - your opinion. I find it lacking in love. My opinion. I will continue to repeat myself until you can hear me. If that never happens, then we will be the thread that never ends because you will attack me and call me names, and I will re-state that I believe in God's love and that Voris does not appear to me to be discussing that in his video. My opinion.