God Is LOVE

[PhuturePriest]

And yes, Voris is the sort of "evangelist" who would have done very poorly in the early church and who does poorly in the present, post-Christendom milieu. In these circumstances you can not simply rant at the the pagans "you must do x y and z to be a Catholic" you have to start by showing them why they should bother to be Catholic in the first place.

I am sure the video was titled "God is love" to make it clickable but the fact is he uses the word love 2 times. It's not a video about love but rather about doctrinal purity. The two are related of course but let's not pretend the human experience of them is the same. 

​The more you speak, the more you prove how little of Michael Voris you have seen. Have you ever heard one of his numerous talks, put on the channel for free? Have you seen his countless videos in his premium channel which teach the doctrines and history of the faith? If not, you cannot accurately judge his ministry, who it's for, and how good he is at it. I have personally known and met many people who were converted back to the faith or from their lukewarmness directly because of Michael Voris, myself included.

[AccountDeleted]

Voris specializes, like ex-Fr Corapi, in preaching to a choir that gets turned up by being told in a very stern manner that they are correct. 

​Yeah, that's who he reminds me of - Corapi. Never was a fan of his either.

[Ice_nine]

Why does there have to be a point here? It's open mike. There are a lot of threads I don't see the point of and skip over. 

I agree with you that I don't like his style in the few videos I've seen. But ​really? That seems uncalled for. 

​It's just being honest. I can't see his style reaching a great many number of people except for a small niche that basically already agrees with him.

 

But like I said I'd revise my opinion if anyone would please standup and say "I was a lukewarm Catholic/other religion and Michael Voris really changed my faith"

 

[Nihil Obstat]

​It's just being honest. I can't see his style reaching a great many number of people except for a small niche that basically already agrees with him.

 

But like I said I'd revise my opinion if anyone would please standup and say "I was a lukewarm Catholic/other religion and Michael Voris really changed my faith"

 

Miles literally just said that.

[Credo in Deum]

​It's just being honest. I can't see his style reaching a great many number of people except for a small niche that basically already agrees with him.

 

But like I said I'd revise my opinion if anyone would please standup and say "I was a lukewarm Catholic/other religion and Michael Voris really changed my faith"

 

Michael Voris and his Church Militant site has helped me grow in and practice my faith.  I used to be very lukewarm until I started listening to them.  Now I have a greater appreciation for our faith and the Liturgy.  The other person who has helped me is Archbishop Fulton J Sheen, but I digress.

I always hear Catholics complain about poor catechises in the Church and how we need better programs.  Well, IMO, the premium content Michael Voris provides does a great job in helping Catholics learn their faith and I encourage others to check out the Church Militant TV site.  I used to be biased against him but then I gave him a chance and was happy I did.  He fights for the Church, defends the Papacy, and exposes corruption.  I find him a welcome balance from the constant fluffernutter sites that act like everything is hunky dory in the Church.

 

[AccountDeleted]

Well, the more I watch him, the more he looks like a religious fanatic to me. And he would totally turn me off the Church, especially if I were still thinking about converting.

Fortunately I learned about the faith from people who not only talked about the love of God, but also lived it - the Missionaries of Charity. Before I became Catholic, I always hated the Protestant evangelists because of their dogmatic and over the top style of preaching. Voris reminds me of them. 

I know that there are different stroke for different folks, but I am so glad I never came across him before I converted - otherwise it would never have happened.

 

[Not The Philosopher]

*Walks onscreen, panting, wiping sweat off his forehead, and pointing into the distance.*

"Now here we can see *huff* two packs of carnivoris and herbivoris have *huff* unexpectedly encountered each other. This is a very *huff* tense moment, as any sudden movement or gesture could lead to an *wheeze* an excited frenzy which would leave them as easy prey for their natural predator - the creature that the natives of Phatmass call *huff* the "Mediator of Meh". Let's take a closer look, shall we?"

[PhuturePriest]

Well, the more I watch him, the more he looks like a religious fanatic to me. And he would totally turn me off the Church, especially if I were still thinking about converting.

Fortunately I learned about the faith from people who not only talked about the love of God, but also lived it - the Missionaries of Charity. Before I became Catholic, I always hated the Protestant evangelists because of their dogmatic and over the top style of preaching. Voris reminds me of them. 

I know that there are different stroke for different folks, but I am so glad I never came across him before I converted - otherwise it would never have happened.

 

​It seems you would not have fared well to the faith after listening to Saint Polycarp, who denounced a heretic in a public setting by saying "You are the firstborn of Satan!"; or not even Venerable Fulton Sheen, who two years before his death yelled at a heretical Catholic and kicked him out of the parish in a sacristy after Mass, saying "Get out! The Holy Mother Church is perfect, I will not have you tainting it -- get out!" Just because it's not your style, it doesn't mean it's not holy or effective.

[AccountDeleted]

​It seems you would not have fared well to the faith after listening to Saint Polycarp, who denounced a heretic in a public setting by saying "You are the firstborn of Satan!"; or not even Venerable Fulton Sheen, who two years before his death yelled at a heretical Catholic and kicked him out of the parish in a sacristy after Mass, saying "Get out! The Holy Mother Church is perfect, I will not have you tainting it -- get out!" Just because it's not your style, it doesn't mean it's not holy or effective.

​No, I wouldn't fare well with the hellfire and brimstone preachers. You are right about that. Perhaps that is because I take Jesus at His word that God is Love and I would much rather hear about how God loves us and forgives us and shows us mercy than about how imperfect we are if we can't live up to the over 600 rules of Jewish scriptures - oops, sorry, Catholic Catechism.

Rules are important, and they should be covered in catechesis, but if anyone thinks they will get to heaven simply by 'perfecting' themselves through rules, then they should beware of the danger of the spiritual pride of the Pharisees who thought they were better than the tax collector.

I know that there might be some who do relate to the hellfire method of evangelization, but I am not one of them, so all I can say is - different strokes. ' Who isn't against us is for us.;

 

9 To some who were confident of their own righteousness and looked down on everyone else, Jesus told this parable: 10 “Two men went up to the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. 11 The Pharisee stood by himself and prayed: ‘God, I thank you that I am not like other people—robbers, evildoers, adulterers—or even like this tax collector. 12 I fast twice a week and give a tenth of all I get.’

13 “But the tax collector stood at a distance. He would not even look up to heaven, but beat his breast and said, ‘God, have mercy on me, a sinner.’

14 “I tell you that this man, rather than the other, went home justified before God. For all those who exalt themselves will be humbled, and those who humble themselves will be exalted.” Lk 18:9-14

 

 

To me, much more effective at conversion is the story of the sinful woman who washed Jesus' feet:

 

1. This is the reason why I tell you that her sins, her many sins, are forgiven--because she has loved much; but he who is forgiven little,loves little." Therefore I tell you, her sins, which are many, are forgiven, for she loved much. Lk 7:47

 

[PhuturePriest]

​No, I wouldn't fare well with the hellfire and brimstone preachers. You are right about that. Perhaps that is because I take Jesus at His word that God is Love and I would much rather hear about how God loves us and forgives us and shows us mercy than about how imperfect we are if we can't live up to the over 600 rules of Jewish scriptures - oops, sorry, Catholic Catechism.

Rules are important, and they should be covered in catechesis, but if anyone thinks they will get to heaven simply by 'perfecting' themselves through rules, then they should beware of the danger of the spiritual pride of the Pharisees who thought they were better than the tax collector.

I know that there might be some who do relate to the hellfire method of evangelization, but I am not one of them, so all I can say is - different strokes. ' Who isn't against us is for us.;

 

9 To some who were confident of their own righteousness and looked down on everyone else, Jesus told this parable: 10 “Two men went up to the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. 11 The Pharisee stood by himself and prayed: ‘God, I thank you that I am not like other people—robbers, evildoers, adulterers—or even like this tax collector. 12 I fast twice a week and give a tenth of all I get.’

13 “But the tax collector stood at a distance. He would not even look up to heaven, but beat his breast and said, ‘God, have mercy on me, a sinner.’

14 “I tell you that this man, rather than the other, went home justified before God. For all those who exalt themselves will be humbled, and those who humble themselves will be exalted.” Lk 18:9-14

 

 

To me, much more effective at conversion is the story of the sinful woman who washed Jesus' feet:

 

1. This is the reason why I tell you that her sins, her many sins, are forgiven--because she has loved much; but he who is forgiven little,loves little." Therefore I tell you, her sins, which are many, are forgiven, for she loved much. Lk 7:47

 

​You are forgetting the spiritual work of mercy, which is admonishing the sinner. We must admonish the sinner, because mercy without admonishing is not truly mercy at all. You also forget that Christ constantly warned that there would be wolves attacking the Church, and said we must defend ourselves from them. He was speaking not just about Satan, but about people. When those people attack the Church, we must call them out and defend ourselves, even to the exclusion of those people. It may not seem "nice", but it is pastorally appropriate given the directions set by Christ.

I have no issue if this is not your bag of tea. But the issue is you keep saying such things as "different strokes", meaning this is okay for those who prefer it, but then seem to denounce it afterwards and neglect that these methods are not just personality differences, but directions by Christ and the example set by the early Church Fathers and the Saints throughout the history of the Church. I believe 100% in mercy, love, and compassion. Admonishing without those things is self-righteousness, which should always be avoided. But mercy without admonishing is not mercy at all, and sometimes admonishing the sinner takes very firm and confrontational tones.

[Credo in Deum]

​No, I wouldn't fare well with the hellfire and brimstone preachers. You are right about that. Perhaps that is because I take Jesus at His word that God is Love and I would much rather hear about how God loves us and forgives us and shows us mercy than about how imperfect we are if we can't live up to the over 600 rules of Jewish scriptures - oops, sorry, Catholic Catechism.

Rules are important, and they should be covered in catechesis, but if anyone thinks they will get to heaven simply by 'perfecting' themselves through rules, then they should beware of the danger of the spiritual pride of the Pharisees who thought they were better than the tax collector.

I know that there might be some who do relate to the hellfire method of evangelization, but I am not one of them, so all I can say is - different strokes. ' Who isn't against us is for us.;

 

9 To some who were confident of their own righteousness and looked down on everyone else, Jesus told this parable: 10 “Two men went up to the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. 11 The Pharisee stood by himself and prayed: ‘God, I thank you that I am not like other people—robbers, evildoers, adulterers—or even like this tax collector. 12 I fast twice a week and give a tenth of all I get.’

13 “But the tax collector stood at a distance. He would not even look up to heaven, but beat his breast and said, ‘God, have mercy on me, a sinner.’

14 “I tell you that this man, rather than the other, went home justified before God. For all those who exalt themselves will be humbled, and those who humble themselves will be exalted.” Lk 18:9-14

 

 

To me, much more effective at conversion is the story of the sinful woman who washed Jesus' feet:

 

1. This is the reason why I tell you that her sins, her many sins, are forgiven--because she has loved much; but he who is forgiven little,loves little." Therefore I tell you, her sins, which are many, are forgiven, for she loved much. Lk 7:47

 

God's mercy is great, and Jesus was the greatest hellfire preacher ever to have existed.  In fact he talked about hell a lot in the gospels.  Our priest did a sermon today about how 'mercy' is the new buzz word and that its misused to depict Chrsit as someone who is indeferent toward sin and if we continue in sin.  This he said is not God's mercy nor is it what the Church means by God's mercy. This is because God's mercy always directs us to recognize his Justice.  When the woman was caught in adultery Christ forgave her but he also told her to sin no more. His Mercy directed her to His Justice.  Again we see this in John: 5:14 Afterwards, Jesus findeth him in the temple and saith to him: Behold thou art made whole: sin no more, lest some worse thing happen to thee

Sin no more, lest some worse thing happen to thee! Jesus showed mercy in order to direct that man to His justice.  

Preaching about hellfire is not contrary to God's mercy.  In fact preaching about hellfire is an act of mercy since it directs us to the truth that God will not allow people to abuse his mercy and oppose his justice.

Edited March 23, 2015 by Credo in Deum

[AccountDeleted]

Admonishing without those things is self-righteousness, which should always be avoided. But mercy without admonishing is not mercy at all, and sometimes admonishing the sinner takes very firm and confrontational tones.

​This is the heart of the matter. So many 'good' Christians think they are in the position to admonish when all they are being is self-righteous. Sometimes it doesn't take firm and confrontational tones, but gentleness that would not break the tender reed.

And yes, I continue to say different strokes because some people want to focus on the bad in another person rather than their own imperfection, no matter how many rules they are keeping. 

God's mercy is great, and Jesus was the greatest hellfire preacher ever to have existed.  In fact he talked about hell a lot in the gospels.  Our priest did a sermon today about how 'mercy' is the new buzz word and that its misused to depict Chrsit as someone who is indeferent toward sin and if we continue in sin.  This he said is not God's mercy nor is it what the Church means by God's mercy. This is because God's mercy always directs us to recognize his Justice.  When the woman was caught in adultery Christ forgave her but he also told her to sin no more. His Mercy directed her to His Justice.  Again we see this in John: 5:14 Afterwards, Jesus findeth him in the temple and saith to him: Behold thou art made whole: sin no more, lest some worse thing happen to thee

Sin no more, lest some worse thing happen to thee! Jesus showed mercy in order to direct that man to His justice.  

Preaching about hellfire is not contrary to God's mercy.  In fact preaching about hellfire is an act of mercy since it directs us to the truth that God will not allowed people to oppose abuse his mercy and oppose his justice.

​Jesus was perfect and had every right to talk about things He knew - like hellfire. What I object to is self-righteousness that disguises itself as correction. There is a fine line here, and I still stay you can catch more flies with honey than with vinegar.

Jesus may have preached about heaven and hell (things he knew about personally, which we as humans don't) but he also told us not to judge each other - only He can do that - He said that we spend more time looking at the twig in our brother's eye than we do at the log in our own.

No one is going to get me to fear Jesus when I love Him so much and trust and depend totally in His mercy. Go at it - but Micheal Voris just puts me off. And I would never in a million years ask anyone I know to watch him - it would only alienate them. And I'm not talking about sinners here, but good people who would just be repulsed by his self-righteous manner.

[PhuturePriest]

​No, I wouldn't fare well with the hellfire and brimstone preachers. You are right about that. Perhaps that is because I take Jesus at His word that God is Love and I would much rather hear about how God loves us and forgives us and shows us mercy than about how imperfect we are if we can't live up to the over 600 rules of Jewish scriptures - oops, sorry, Catholic Catechism.

Rules are important, and they should be covered in catechesis, but if anyone thinks they will get to heaven simply by 'perfecting' themselves through rules, then they should beware of the danger of the spiritual pride of the Pharisees who thought they were better than the tax collector.

I know that there might be some who do relate to the hellfire method of evangelization, but I am not one of them, so all I can say is - different strokes. ' Who isn't against us is for us.;

 

9 To some who were confident of their own righteousness and looked down on everyone else, Jesus told this parable: 10 “Two men went up to the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. 11 The Pharisee stood by himself and prayed: ‘God, I thank you that I am not like other people—robbers, evildoers, adulterers—or even like this tax collector. 12 I fast twice a week and give a tenth of all I get.’

13 “But the tax collector stood at a distance. He would not even look up to heaven, but beat his breast and said, ‘God, have mercy on me, a sinner.’

14 “I tell you that this man, rather than the other, went home justified before God. For all those who exalt themselves will be humbled, and those who humble themselves will be exalted.” Lk 18:9-14

 

 

To me, much more effective at conversion is the story of the sinful woman who washed Jesus' feet:

 

1. This is the reason why I tell you that her sins, her many sins, are forgiven--because she has loved much; but he who is forgiven little,loves little." Therefore I tell you, her sins, which are many, are forgiven, for she loved much. Lk 7:47

 

​Also, it seems you have very selective reading, I am afraid.

"You are of your father the devil, because you do your father's bidding." John 8:44

"And seeing many of the pharisees and sadducees coming to his baptism, he said to them: Ye brood of vipers, who hath shewed you to flee from the wrath to come? Bring therefore fruit worthy of penance. And think not to say within yourselves "We have Abraham for our father. For I tell you that God is able of these stones to raise up children to Abraham. For now the axe is laid to the root of the trees. Every tree therefore that doth not yield good fruit, shall be cut down, and cast into the fire... but he that is mighter than I.... will thoroughly cleanse his floor and gather his wheat into the barn; but the chaff he will burn with unquenchable fire." -- Matthew 2:7-12

"And when he had made, as it were, a scourge of little cords, he drove them all out of the temple, the sheep also and the oxen, and the money of the changers he poured out, and the tables he overthrew." John 2:15

If that's not fire and brimstone preaching, I don't know what is. Here we have both Jesus and Saint John the Baptist calling people sons of Satan (which is not conducive to their conversion, mind you), whipping people, preaching about hell and punishment, and running people out of a place of worship. This overly nice image of Jesus and the Saints you seem to have is misguided and wrong at best and spiritually dangerous at worse.

[Maggyie]

I dunno. It seems that reading the signs of the times, most people believe hell is a myth, or at worst, in the playwright's words, l'enfer c'est les autres. 

So to preach to them about hell, is a waste of time. First you must convince them the supernatural exists. The number of lukewarm Catholics is collapsing. Few people in the younger generation bother to be lukewarm. They leave Christianity entirely.

Imagine watching an imam on YouTube saying the same things in all sincerity. To be a Muslim(or Hindu or Jew)  is to be an absolutist. Islam is the superior religion. What evidence does he supply for these statements? All he has is the force and confidence of his words. You would think him daft.

In Voris case we are also to be convinced by the 90s production values and the hair. 

[Guest]

I find his videos entertaining. I used to be not able to stand him. lol But the whole vortex thing has grown on me a little bit. I see where both sides are coming from.