Dreams, Locutions, and other mystical experiences

[Selah]

Has anyone here ever experienced anything like this? Dreams, for instance, about Jesus, the Blessed Mother, or the saints? Are they common or rare, do you think? If you feel you do not want to share, it's understandable. But I am curious.

[Luigi]

I've never had a holy dream. I wonder why not. 

[AccountDeleted]

This is entirely my own personal opinion but I think talking about one's spiritual experiences could possibly lead to a kind of spiritual pride. A private revelation is just that - private. And whether or not one has these experiences is really irrelevant, at least according to St John of the Cross. But that's just my 2 cents.

[Catlick]

The Devil often appeared to St. Padre Pio in dreams, visions etc., disguised as St. Pius X, his superior, the Holy Virgin, even as Our Lord Jesus Christ. He was only able to tell that they were fake by an intense discernment of spirits a la Ignatius of Loyola. Frankly this fact would make me scared if I had 'mystical' dreams. 

[BarbTherese]

St Teresa of Avila does warn that mystical type phenomena can be open to deception by self (through the imagination) or even satanic influences. The best way forward probably is to subject any such phenomena to a priest and to be docile to his advice.  After all, if such things do come from God, who can stand in the way?  It might be a rocky sort of road but God and His Will shall prevail finally in howsoever that is made manifest.

[Gabriela]

Hi Selah,

My MA thesis was on this topic. You can read it here: http://vtechworks.lib.vt.edu/handle/10919/19343

To answer your question about "frequency": Among Catholics, they are quite rare. Among Protestants... well... read Tanya Luhrmann's book called "When God Talks Back" and judge for yourself. Among Jews, Muslims, and other non-Christians, we have no idea.

Hope that helps! It is a tricky subject to discuss publicly (at least if you're asking for people's personal experiences). So if you'd like to discuss further, please feel free to PM me.

In Him,

Gabriela

[AccountDeleted]

Hi Selah,

My MA thesis was on this topic. You can read it here: http://vtechworks.lib.vt.edu/handle/10919/19343

To answer your question about "frequency": Among Catholics, they are quite rare. Among Protestants... well... read Tanya Luhrmann's book called "When God Talks Back" and judge for yourself. Among Jews, Muslims, and other non-Christians, we have no idea.

Hope that helps! It is a tricky subject to discuss publicly (at least if you're asking for people's personal experiences). So if you'd like to discuss further, please feel free to PM me.

In Him,

Gabriela

​You're right. I shouldn't have shut her down so fast but it is a tricky subject. I have had a lot of mystical experiences but I wonder if that is because I did a lot of meditation before I became a Catholic and had many other mystical experiences before Jesus became personal for me. Perhaps it is should be a privately discussed thing though because of all the concerns about things like spiritual pride, demonic influences etc. I look forward to reading your thesis. I have read a lot about mystical experiences, trying to understand my own, so that should be good! Thanks for the link.

[veritasluxmea]

What qualifies as a mystical experience? 

[Selah]

This is entirely my own personal opinion but I think talking about one's spiritual experiences could possibly lead to a kind of spiritual pride. A private revelation is just that - private. And whether or not one has these experiences is really irrelevant, at least according to St John of the Cross. But that's just my 2 cents.

​Good point. I didn't mean to come off as intrusive, and apologize if I did. I have just always been curious, since the Eastern Churches seem to look down on dreams and private revelations, and if compares/contrasts to the Western Church. 

[BarbTherese]

​Good point. I didn't mean to come off as intrusive, and apologize if I did. I have just always been curious, since the Eastern Churches seem to look down on dreams and private revelations, and if compares/contrasts to the Western Church. 

I am no expert by far and only read insofar as it may have been of some interest to me.

​I think that in the Roman Rite, The Church is certainly aware that mystical type phenomena can occur.  Usually, wisdom and prudence asks that such phenomena is subjected to one's spiritual director or to a priest for discernment (and to be docile to same) as this type of phenomena can have many causes and a search on the internet will isolate reliable sites on this subject.  If that authority discerns it necessary and wise, the matter can be subjected to one's bishop - dependant on the actual phenomena that has occurred.  If one's bishop affirms validity of the experience, it can then go on to Rome - again, dependant on the actual phenomena that has occurred.  Certainly, I would think, no matter the level of authority one consults, the experience would be quite extensively even rigorously examined and over a period of time.

The frequency of mystical type phenomena is probably difficult to know - we usually only hear of well publicized cases.  There is a great variety of mystical type experiences according to what I have read.

For St Teresa of Avila's thoughts on contemplative experience and also mystical experience, Catholic Culture has a summary. https://www.catholicculture.org/culture/library/view.cfm?id=7725

"Catholic Spiritual Direction" is a quite reliable site apparently.  A quick Google came up a number of articles this that might be of interest http://www.spiritualdirection.com/topics/mystical-experience

 

 

 

 

 

[BarbTherese]

What qualifies as a mystical experience? 

​Very interesting question.  Again, no expert here for sure - I tend to think that since the mystical transcends the ordinary experience of the human being, the language of the mystics might approximate only the experience, not actually describe it - pinpoint it as it were so ordinary human experience can grasp the phenomena in the understanding.  Since the mystical is not a common experience of all human beings, we do not have the actual language necessary.  Again, must underscore, no expert here for sure.

Catholic Culture dictionary http://www.catholicculture.org/culture/library/dictionary/index.cfm?id=35033 (All items in this dictionary are from Fr. John Hardon's Modern Catholic Dictionary, © Eternal Life. Used with permission. )

"The supernatural state of soul in which God is known in a way that no human effort or exertion could ever succeed in producing. There is an immediate, personal experience of God that is truly extraordinary, not only in intensity and degree, but in kind. It is always the result of a special, totally unmerited grace of God. Christian mysticism differs essentially from the non-Christian mysticism of the Oriental world. It always recognizes that the reality to which it penetrates simply transcends the soul and the cosmos; there is no confusion between I and thou, but always a profound humility before the infinite Majesty of God. And in Christian mysticism all union between the soul and God is a moral union of love, in doing his will even at great sacrifice to self; there is no hint of losing one's being in God or absorption of one's personality into the divine."

[AccountDeleted]

​Good point. I didn't mean to come off as intrusive, and apologize if I did. I have just always been curious, since the Eastern Churches seem to look down on dreams and private revelations, and if compares/contrasts to the Western Church. 

​Sorry if I came across as dismissive, which I didn't mean to do. I have always heard that it isn't good to speak about mystical experiences (we couldn't even talk about dreams in the convent) but I can understand why some people would like to explore the issue.

For myself, such experience are very private and it's a bit like sharing one's most intimate experiences with others - it is something you would only do with another person you trust completely and in a private setting. But that's me because I have privacy concerns and particularly don't like discussing things of a personal nature online. But for those who have no such issues, then perhaps it is quite ok to explore the topic of mysticism and mystical experiences. They are certainly open to interpretation and misinterpretation and even St Teresa, who wrote all about hers, tried to downplay these in later life and discouraged her nuns from seeking such experiences (although from what I have read it seems like the were quite common in her communities - who knows why).

So, don't want to be a wet rag!