Servants of The Sacred Cross

[BarbTherese]

I think it is correct that hundreds of years ago Third Order members could wear the habit of the Order.  Nowadays this is not so and only religious wear the religious habit, although I don't think that The Church has made any statements nor ruling to prevent a non-religious person from doing so.  It is lodged in Catholic cultural consciousness, however, that only religious wear religious habits.  I agree with Gabriela that it is very much a "not yet - wait and see" situation with the SSC insofar as what The Church has to state officially.

The Servants of The Sacred Cross are not a Third Order.  It is very important that anyone who feels called to religious life would not discern with the SSC, since they are not a religious order nor any form of consecrated life whatsoever - and at this point do not have any sort of approval officially from The Church.  I have had periodic contact with Mother Wendy over what must be almost ten years and have always found her to be helpful and straightforward in answering questions and a very pleasant and welcoming personality.  I am not discerning with them although my interest, some ten years ago or so, was roused when I first heard about them.  I do know that there has been at times considerable unsupported rather nasty unkindness on the internet about the SSC and Mother Wendy.  Whether such is true or not, I would not know - although I have never seen any actual evidence and my own experiences with the organisation through Mother Wendy has only ever been quite pleasant. 

There is nothing to prevent a Catholic women joining the SSC - however, considerable caution would be most wise and prudent.  I would strongly advise that they consult their diocesan vocation director on the subject since the SSC, at this point, do not have any sort of formal Church approval.

[MarysLittleFlower]

Barbara, if they are not a Third Order and are not a religious order either and they accept married women... Does this type of organisation have a title? Just wondering... Are there similar organisations that are approved? I guess its all up to the Church... 

[Nihil Obstat]

 

Barbara, if they are not a Third Order and are not a religious order either and they accept married women... Does this type of organisation have a title? Just wondering... Are there similar organisations that are approved? I guess its all up to the Church... 

Pious association of the faithful?

[BarbTherese]

MLF, while there might be some kind of similarity to Third Orders at least in the very distant past (laity wearing religious habits) - there may be other similarities, the SSC is not a Third Order because it is not connected to any established religious order.   The SSC is fully independent and insofar as I know have their own quite unique rule of life.   I think the SSC would fall under a private association of the faithful in Canon Law - more reading matter and very valuable reading matter:  Associations of The Faithful and Canon Law

On their website, the SSC http://www.thesacredcross.org/main.htm states "The Community is presently validly formed under Canon 215 and Canon 298ff of the Code of Canon Law".  What exactly that might mean, I think one would need to ask Mother Wendy.  Canon Law can be complex, which is why we have Canon Lawyers.

Other than Mother Wendy, for more precise information those members who have an understanding of Canon Law might post into this thread.  Certainly, I am not one of them. 

http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG1104/__PU.HTM

Can. 215 The Christian faithful are at liberty freely to found and direct associations for purposes of charity or piety or for the promotion of the Christian vocation in the world and to hold meetings for the common pursuit of these purposes.

Can. 298 §1. In the Church there are associations distinct from institutes of consecrated life and societies of apostolic life; in these associations the Christian faithful, whether clerics, lay persons, or clerics and lay persons together, strive in a common endeavor to foster a more perfect life, to promote public worship or Christian doctrine, or to exercise other works of the apostolate such as initiatives of evangelization, works of piety or charity, and those which animate the temporal order with a Christian spirit.

§2. The Christian faithful are to join especially those associations which competent ecclesiastical authority has erected, praised, or commended.

Can. 299 §1. By means of a private agreement made among themselves, the Christian faithful are free to establish associations to pursue the purposes mentioned in ⇒ can. 298, §1, without prejudice to the prescript of ⇒ can. 301, §1.

§2. Even if ecclesiastical authority praises or commends them, associations of this type are called private associations.

§3. No private association of the Christian faithful is recognized in the Church unless competent authority reviews its statutes.

Can. 301 §1. It is for the competent ecclesiastical authority alone to erect associations of the Christian faithful which propose to hand on Christian doctrine in the name of the Church or to promote public worship, or which intend other purposes whose pursuit is of its nature reserved to the same ecclesiastical authority.

§2. Competent ecclesiastical authority, if it has judged it expedient, can also erect associations of the Christian faithful to pursue directly or indirectly other spiritual purposes whose accomplishment has not been sufficiently provided for through the initiatives of private persons.

§3. Associations of the Christian faithful which are erected by competent ecclesiastical authority are called public associations.

Edited August 18, 2015 by BarbaraTherese

[BarbTherese]

I just noticed on their website that the SSC state they are "A de facto Private Association of the Faithful"

http://www.catholiccanonlaw.com/associations.pdf  (Note :  There is plenty of reading matter on de facto associations of the faithful on this link, simply search for "de facto".) 

"A de facto association of the faithful exists by common agreement among its members but has no

recognition from Church authority. Because this type of association seeks no recognition from the

Church, its statutes do not require review by ecclesiastical authority."

[donnakelsch@frontier]

The Servants of the Sacred Cross is not recognized or approved by either the Anglican or Roman Catholic Church. Yes, anyone can join a "defacto" Association but not ( according to a number of Catholic Bishops that have told their diocesan members that they MAY NOT call themselves "sisters" or wear a religious habit and veil ) as an SSC  "sister" in habit. The Superior/Foundress would have to approach her Archbishop in Nova Scotia , as a beginning, and follow his instructions which she seems to be unwilling to do. For one thing, he would tell her that a currently married woman ( as she is ) cannot be a "sister", nor impersonate one in a habit and veil. No approved formation takes place, they do not live together ( how could they when almost half are currently married? ), and their "constitution" would never be approved in this current age. A number of members have left when the Superior made it clear she was not going to try to become a legitimate religious anything...as she knows all the currently and active married members would be required to drop the "sister" title and the habit and she doesn't want to. They are a "Registered Canadian Charity" period.

Yes, the Superior can be quite charming when she wants to be, and she is an expert at P.R., but the Bishops who have learned of her through her members consider her totally illegitimate.She refuses to talk to them and ( against Canon law ) refuses to allow her members to talk to them. The members usually come to the attention of the Bishops through their pastors who have suspicions and direct the woman in question to the Bishops' office. Talk to Fr. Carl Reid in Vancouver ( the groups former "Bishop Visitor" ), or the Bishop of Lexington, Kentucky...to name a few. Don't take my word for it.

This is not a pro-catholic group no matter how sweet and innocent she may sound. You do the Church no service by promoting it. It's all smoke and mirrors. 

 

[Guest]

Re myself personally as originator of the thread back in March 2015.

Initially I was very interested in the SSC as something quite new and unique.  I found Mother Wendy a lovely and quite open person with which to correspond.  After research, for myself personally only, I decided to not further my interest in the SSC.  One quite personal only factor was that for me the religious habit is for those who are professed into religious life;  however, I do realise that there is nothing in Church Law to prevent a lay person wearing a form of religious habit.  There might be a law against it in some secular state law although not in my own state.  I did ask Mother Wendy if the habit they wore could be optional.  She stated that it was mandatory.  At the time too, I was still in the process of defining/discerning where exactly I might be as a privately vowed lay person, my place, in The Church.  This is now settled for me personally.

It must be over 12 years ago, perhaps more, now that I first came across the SSC and corresponded with Mother Wendy James.  Now and then I check out the website and it has been a concern that there has not been a newsletter since 2011.

 If any of our diocesan bishops anywhere have objections to the SSC to pass on to their diocese, then doubtless it will appear somewhere on the internet, providing a link or links.  Without that, to my way of thought, whatever might be posted is personal information only either directly or from third parties.  There is much information in this thread from my researching especially.  Research that includes links.

 

Quote

https://www.catholicculture.org/culture/library/view.cfm?recnum=828

"Where Two or Three are Gathered"

It is wise to check out Church Canon Law and laws.  This article from Catholic Culture (sound Catholic resource site) is a commentary on Canon Law aspects and the laity and are excerpts from the article only..

Excerpt only:   "Pope St. Leo the Great exhorts us, "Man, remember your dignity." This exhortation is a cure to the uneasiness that some feel when discussing their rights in the Church. It helps us to remember our dignity. One of the ways that the Church recognizes our dignity is by setting up a system of law to protect our rights. It is important to remember that we are not asserting rights against the Church, but rather we are asserting rights within the Church—rights that the Church herself recognizes and protects............

....................

THE LAW OF THE CHURCH

Canon law says the following about the rights of Catholics to freedom of association and assembly:

Canon 215—"The Christian faithful are at liberty freely to found and to govern associations for charitable and religious purposes or for the promotion of the Christian vocation in the world; they are free to hold meetings to pursue these purposes in common."

This canon illustrates the reason that the 1983 Code of Canon Law has been described as the final document of Vatican II.[3] The emphasis on the rights of the faithful is "a major innovation into the Church's law,"[4] and it arises from the teachings of Vatican II."

 

Finally, as I stated before in this thread, if one feels one might have a call to consecrated life, then one would not discern with the Servants of The Sacred Cross.  They remain in the laity in every way.

I repeat too, that if @dUSt decides to lock or delete this thread, I accept his decision without any problem or problems at all.

Edited October 9, 2016 by BarbaraTherese

[donnakelsch@frontier]

The Bishops do not have the time or interest to "post something on the web" as they are only interested in their particular communicant going down the wrong road. They deal with her alone, maybe her pastor too. After all, Mrs Wendy James was smart enough to make this a Canadian Charity and nothing else. The Bishops have no jurisdiction, as EVERY legitimate community needs direct approval from the Bishop in which diocese the woman resides. There are only 14 of them total scattered around Canada, the US and Australia ( if the latter are even still members as no one ever hears from them ). The issues with the Bishops is the passing yourself off as legitimate religious sisters when you're not. If they would take off their habits and veils, and stop calling themselves "sister" anybody could join with no problem. The Bishop that received Wendy into the Church was very disturbed and unhappy after the fact, when he found out this woman , whom he thought was a celibate sister as she was wearing a habit, etc., was a married lay woman posing as a nun.  You get the picture.

[Guest]

Luke 9:50

Quote

49 Then John said in reply, "Master, we saw someone casting out demons in your name and we tried to prevent him because he does not follow in our company." Jesus said to him, "Do not prevent him, for whoever is not against you is for you."

I think that possibly the SSC is a type of religious sisterhood - but not in the more recent traditional line.  There is nothing in Church law that states that a lay person cannot wear a religious habit, not that I know of anyway.  I am interested in the SSC as an interest having decided not to go forward with any sort of discernment.

I am curious too about the Australian province of the SSC.  It certainly did seem that the Archbishop of Brisbane at the time did accept them.

I wonder if it might be wise and prudent before challenging a person's reputation and on the internet to be able to quote reliable sources of information.  It can be a form of bullying to me and it seems to me that the SSC and Mother Wendy do cop plenty of it.

[Guest]

____________

There is plenty of information on De Facto Associations of The Faithful on the above link.  I have only quoted a very small section indeed.

Edit: My computer is playing up.  I will return at some point and post the link to the quite comprehensive information in a commentary on Canon Law and Associations of The Faithful, including De Facto Associations of The Faithful.

Edited November 24, 2016 by BarbaraTherese

[Guest]

Here is the link I promised to commentary on Canon Law and De Facto Associations of The Faithful.  You need to search the document for "De Facto" for all the information:

http://www.catholiccanonlaw.com/associations.pdf

Quote

 

Extract only:

"A de facto association of the faithful exists by common agreement among its members but has no recognition from Church authority. Because this type of association seeks no recognition from the Church, its statutes do not require review by ecclesiastical authority.

This lack of review of statutes allows great flexibility in development and discharge of the apostolate. It also encourages less structure, which may promote conflict, division and ultimately the demise of the association. The lack of review of statutes by competent authority encourages a perception of secrecy.

For this reason, the law clearly states that “no private association of the Christian faithful in the Church is recognized unless its statues are reviewed by competent authority (Canon 299). Due to the necessity of structure for a de facto association to survive and flourish, all members shouldhave opportunity to participate in the writing of clear and concise statutes. The members should exercise cooperation, flexibility and most importantly sincerity of faith. Its moderator should possess strong administrative skills and a deep knowledge of the Catholic Church."  (Read more on above link)

 

 

Anyone discerning or considering the SSC should familiarise themselves with their status in The Church both by ensuring that De Facto Association of The Faithful (DFAF) is what the SSC is classed under as their status.  Then by familiarising themselves with what The Church states about a DFAF and asking Mother Wendy any necessary questions.  Also, were it me, I would be making enquiries in my diocesan offices to ensure my understanding was correct, including questions re a DFAF wearing a religious habit including married members.

I think Mother Wendy does send out a package for those discerning, which I would hope includes their rule of life and statutes.

Edited November 24, 2016 by BarbaraTherese

[Rae rae]

This is exactly why I am leaving the Catholic faith. Audacity and arrogance makes me sick. I too am tired of the circular fighting with the Canon. This is why protestantism exists. Same old thing. To the Catholic responder, thanks for being part of the problem. Fortunately, you get to drink on that. 

[Guest]

All due respect, as I mean not to be insulting nor in any way hurtful - rather to state a truth of my quite personal position.   I mean neither patronization nor condescension.   I was quite saddened to read your post.  Thank you for sharing your thoughts and  in some ways I can agree with you.  May The Lord bless your journey and travel with you, however and wherever your journey may lead.  Amen.

I had a look at your profile.  You only joined some hours ago and your only and sole post is into this thread.  You state your religion as Catholic.  I am really hoping the posts exchanged in this thread have not so devastated you that you are leaving The Church.  All of us are only finite - very fallible - human beings.  What follows are only the fallible thoughts of a miserable sinner and rather long time member of Phatmass.

To me very personally, to leave The Catholic Church is to leave Jesus.  The Church is not the rules and regulations, Canon Law or any other law or laws.  The Catholic Church is the Mystical Body of Christ on earth.  At times, I can have plenty of problems with Catholicism, the culture of Catholicism as lived out in the day to day and all the laws and regulations, but I personally cannot bring myself to leave The Catholic Church and Jesus present in The Blessed Eucharist.

If I am going to make my Catholicism all about living out the letter of the law the rules and regulations and the often today lived out culture of Catholicism - then to my mind, I have lost touch with what it is really all about -  lost touch with Jesus and His Gospel.  Be that as it may St Paul tells us in First Corinthians Chapter 10, to respect another's conscience - therefore, if living out the letter of the law is of importance to another, I should (and try to) respect their freedom.  As they, in turn, are called to respect mine.

The letter of the law is cruel.  It teaches us that we are sinners at most every turn, if not every turn.  It teaches us that what we thought was ok, is not ok at all.   This is why St Paul says that the letter of the law can only kill, and sin is a death.  We are all miserable sinners.  However, we have a Sacred Advocate now in Heaven " My children, 1 I am writing this to you so that you may not commit sin. But if anyone does sin, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous one. He is expiation for our sins, and not for our sins only but for those of the whole world. The way we may be sure 2 that we know him is to keep his commandments." First Letter of St John - Chapter 2.

Second Corinthians Chapter 3 " And we have such trust through Christ toward God. 5 Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think of anything as being from ourselves, but our sufficiency is from God, 6 who also made us sufficient as ministers of the new covenant, not of the letter but of the [a]Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life."

What The Holy Spirit teaches us in Scripture is that God asks us to do this, and only this: "You have been told, O man, what is good, and what the LORD requires of you: Only to do right and to love goodness, and to walk humbly with your God."  Micah chapter 6 

Jesus Himself tells us the same thing, in different words, when responding to a question during His Life on earth:

Quote

 

"Teacher, 21 which commandment in the law is the greatest?" He said to him, 22 "You shall love the Lord, your God, with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind. This is the greatest and the first commandment. The second is like it: 23 You shall love your neighbor as yourself.

The whole law and the prophets depend on these two commandments." Matthew Chapter 22

 

If doing right and loving goodness to another is all about living out the letter of the law, then I genuinely try to respect that.  However, the other also has an obligation to respect my own freedom and a contrary opinion.  If that opinion is rejected, so be it.  I am not called to condemn, including by silence, that for which I constantly give thanks.  Amen.

Please forgive my audacity and arrogance if apparent.  Amen.

 

[Guest]

____________________

---o0o---

Not connected to anything nor anyone in this thread - other than a subject raised.  Sort of afterthoughts reflecting about the thread:.......... If I stay close to Jesus in my journey, and staying close to Him is always prayer and can be "a brief glance towards Heaven" (St Therese of Lisieux) as we go about our day.  In time, in the course of any journey, He will teach what is good and right and what is to be avoided and negated. One will arrive at not belief, but something beyond belief i.e. to know - to know not through reflection and pre thought, which more belongs to belief, rather as one journeys, through the spontaneous and instant Grace and Movement of The Holy Spirit, to know.

The above is what the mystics teach us.  They have journeyed through all the trials and severe tribulations of their relationship with Jesus remaining faithful sometimes in great devastating almost storms of the mind, heart and soul, to reach the heights possible for a human being on earth in their relationship with The Lord.  They tell us that the unusual phenomena experienced in mysticism i.e. locations, visions and ecstasies etc. are not what it is all about in essence nor are they necessary to the mystic and mysticism***, rather for them reaching the heights of spirituality or relationship with Jesus possible to a human being on earth, is that unusual phenomena disappears and ceases completely..........and there is only Peace.

What their journey tells me is to remain faithful to Jesus through anything and everything.  And no easy call at all and may involve horrible doubts and even despairs almost.  That kind of despair is to reach despair but not to travel to its depths into complete denial and rejection.  St Therese of Lisieux in her final terminal illness was severely disturbed by doubts even temptations to the depths of despair that Heaven existed which had sustained her and been a consolation to her all her life; nevertheless, she clung blindly to her belief in Heaven to the end.  The instant and spontaneous Grace and Movement of The Holy Spirit gifted her to cling to what is true, as Heaven is indeed True.

"Come Holy Spirit and fill the hearts of ALL the faithful.  Enkindle in us ALL the Fire of Thy Divine Love- then, Lord, send forth Your Spirit and You in Us shall be created and You will renew the face of the earth"

___________

***The unusual phenomena of the mystics and mysticism is even best not to occur at all since such things can be very open to deception by one's own imaginary processes or even by Satan.  Our imagination is an extremely powerful aspect of the human psyche also affected by Original Sin - and needs to be occupied in our journey, occupied creatively.  And Thomas Merton stated in Contemplation in a World of Action, "not by itsy bitsy holy pictures either!"

E&OE

[Guest]

From Vespers for Thursday 27th September 2018 :

Quote

 

"I will give you understanding and teach you the path you are to follow;

  I will keep watch over you.

Do not be like the horse and the mule,

  without understanding:

if you approach them with bit or bridle,

  they will not come near." [Psalm 31 (32) ]

 

5 hours ago, BarbaraTherese said:

to know not through reflection and pre thought, which more belongs to belief, rather as one journeys, through the spontaneous and instant Grace and Movement of The Holy Spirit, to know.

We remain sinners, no matter to what heights a person might reach.  The above does not mean that one responds instantly and faithfully to such Grace and Movements.  In faults and failings and in sinfulness, one can learn true self knowledge and humility - and self knowledge could be said to be the foundation of humility in truth.  The Good Lord wastes nothing, not even our sinfulness.

Such a God have we!