History Of The Inquisition

[the lumberjack]

it doesn't look like bashing to me...

it looks like the Inquisition but in modern times.

convert, or suffer.

[Kilroy the Ninja]

That may be, but it is still NOT ON TOPIC.

[Bruce S]

Bashing?

Who is the one advocating physical violence here?

The topic was the HISTORY of the INQUISITION, and many here said that was THEN.

I'm pointing out, and illustrating that the Catholic Church really never changes. They did what they did in the Middle Ages because they could. They are still doing the very same activities where they can.

I do believe that the Inquistion never really changed, only softened, in some places, and for some times. Changing the NAME of the office of the Inquisition to a more PC term, doesn't mean that the goals, which is forceful elimination of Protestantism have ever changed.

[the lumberjack]

so because its the Inquistion TODAY...and not the HISTORY of the Inquisition....its off topic?

these are examples that people are still dying and suffering thru persecution of the Catholic Church.

whether past or present, its there, and no one can make it pretty or give excuses for what was done.

your hand is in a glove.
that glove chokes someone.
is it the glove's fault?

[Kilroy the Ninja]

[quote name='Winchester' date='Jun 11 2004, 12:14 PM'] I'm curious as to which inquisitions you were alleging were whitewashed, since I've read much about the inquisitions (since there were multiple ones), good bad and ugly.

Are you referring to the black legends? If so, I understand your revulsion toward all inquisitions, since the lies perpetrated by them were quite awful. [/quote]
This is the original post that started this thread, therefore it is the TOPIC.

Bruce, Lumberjack

If you would like to debate whether or not the Inquisition is still well and alive, fine, do that in a different thread.

But don't hijack this one. Debate the original topic or don't debate at all.

[Bruce S]

[quote]Now, Pentecostalism is one of the fastest growing religions on earth. "The Catholic Church chose the poor [b]but the poor chose the Pentecostals,"[/b] Synan says.

Latin America has one of the greatest conversion rates from the Catholic Church to Pentecostalism. Irvin says many people left with the decrees of Vatican II, when the church became more scientific and less spiritual. Pentecostal churches are being burned down and the Vatican has set up an office specifically for relations with the Pentecostal church.

But the Pentecostals are not free from persecuting others. [b]"Evangelicalism is considered a form of persecution.[/b] There are a lot of negative things being said about other churches," Irvin says.

(Updated April 24, 2004)[/quote]

EVANGELISM is "persecution!?"

I guess that gives the Catholic Church the right to continue the MODERN Inquisition then. Can't have people actually having FREEDOM of worship now, can we?

[the lumberjack]

so what if we're talking about the present Inquisition?

he asked about more than one...and that doesn't necessarily mean only in the past.

Winchester would have to clarify if he only meant the past or ANY Inquisition.

so until Winchester specifies, I will continue to post about the Inquisition here.

God bless.

[Kilroy the Ninja]

[quote name='the lumberjack' date='Jun 14 2004, 12:32 PM'] so what if we're talking about the present Inquisition?

he asked about more than one...and that doesn't necessarily mean only in the past.

Winchester would have to clarify if he only meant the past or ANY Inquisition.

so until Winchester specifies, I will continue to post about the Inquisition here.

God bless. [/quote]
I'm sure Winchester will be happy to indulge you with regards to the so-called modern inquisition, but I'll be just as happy to indulge him should he like to have these miscellaneous off-topic posts removed.

Have a nice day.

[Bruce S]

Whats the matter, don't feel comfortable with the reality that the Inquisition never really ended? If you put in Croatia, then fast forward to today, we can see that the METHODS of the Inquition, torture, fear, intimidation, and murder, were then real, and today real.

I can understand your feeling uncomfortable with these issues, but issuing an APOLOGY for harms in 'the past' while still condoning, and winking at harms done TODAY, for the same goals, suppression of people that merely want to be left alone to worship God without the Catholic Church dictating HOW and WHERE one can do that.

The Inquisition never ended.

Now you are asking for EDITING and DELETIONS, typical.

If you can't debate the HISTORY [and that includes RECENT history] of the Inquisition, you are merely wanting to whitewash reality.

The OPENING POST, set forth the debate question:

[quote] [b] I'm curious as to which inquisitions you were alleging were whitewashed, since I've read much about the inquisitions (since there were multiple ones), good bad and ugly.[/b] [/quote]

MULTIPLE means ALL the various Inquistions, in VARIOUS times and places, and that would include the time frame from the first to the last, and the last, isn't over yet, it would seem, in certain nations around the world.

As a Pentecostal, I read about this all the time, it is REAL, it is my fellow co-religionists that are being harrassed, killed and tortured, their worship centers burned. To YOU, it may be academic. To ME it is very very personal.

Edited June 14, 2004 by Bruce S

[Kilroy the Ninja]

[quote name='Bruce S' date='Jun 14 2004, 12:41 PM'] Whats the matter, don't feel comfortable with the reality that the Inquisition never really ended? If you put in Croatia, then fast forward to today, we can see that the METHODS of the Inquition, torture, fear, intimidation, and murder, were then real, and today real.

I can understand your feeling uncomfortable with these issues, but issuing an APOLOGY for harms in 'the past' while still condoning, and winking at harms done TODAY, for the same goals, suppression of people that merely want to be left alone to worship God without the Catholic Church dictating HOW and WHERE one can do that.

The Inquisition never ended. [/quote]
Bruce do not attempt to put your spin on the situation. I'm fine with your want to discuss what you perceive as attrocities committed by the Church. Uncomfortable is your word not mine and I'd appreciate it if you would refrain from labeling me as such since I am not. I am merely trying to keep this topic on track and not let it go all willy nilly as topics dominated by you tend to do. Obviously you and others here are not going to allow the debate to stay civil or on topic. So I have surrendered to the request that Winchester clarify.

[Bruce S]

[quote] I am merely trying to keep this topic on track and not let it go all willy nilly as topics dominated by you tend to do. [/quote]

NO. You are definately trying desperately to CONTROL this topic, and ONLY allow carefully framed issues, one that can be said to be "way back then" and now you are actually being VERY INQUISTION LIKE yourself, if it goes in a direction you don't like, you are crying out for CONTROL, deletes, edits.

EXACTLY as the Catholic Church has done throughout it's entire history.

Sorry.

If you want to move it back to a SPECIFIC Inquisition period, go for it.

[Guest JeffCR07]

Bruce, I really do understand why you're angry, and rightly so, about all the terrible things that are happening in the world today, but I'm not sure that the right thing to do is to claim that [quote]still condoning, and winking at harms done TODAY[/quote]

If the unibomber happened to be a Methodist (I'm making this up for the same of the analogy, not stating this to be fact) I would [i]never[/i] blast the methodist church. In the same way, I would [i]never[/i] blast Islam for the 9/11 attacks. The actions of extremists do not represent the teachings of the faith.

As of yet, you havn't provided anything substantial to say that Rome is ordering, or even "condoning" any of these acts, but you're still blaming the Roman Catholic Church for them.

While I can sympathise with the emotion that is clearly backing the things you say - a hate for wickedness and a love of righteousness - the form of your argument, in terms of backing the insinuation that these extremist acts are, in reality, the workings of a modern day inquisition that does the bidding of Rome, is really pretty weak.

[Guest JeffCR07]

lol, whoops, claim that Rome is [quote]still condoning, and winking at harms done TODAY[/quote]

sorry about that

- Your Brother in Christ, Jeff

[Kilroy the Ninja]

[quote name='Bruce S' date='Jun 14 2004, 12:52 PM']
NO. You are definately trying desperately to CONTROL this topic, and ONLY allow carefully framed issues, one that can be said to be "way back then" and now you are actually being VERY INQUISTION LIKE yourself, if it goes in a direction you don't like, you are crying out for CONTROL, deletes, edits.

EXACTLY as the Catholic Church has done throughout it's entire history.

Sorry.

If you want to move it back to a SPECIFIC Inquisition period, go for it. [/quote]
Bruce,

I pray for you.

Pax Christi.

[Bruce S]

[quote]
Pope Declares Charismatics A 'Threat'

In a most unusual public declaration for Pope John Paul II, he warned Catholics [color=purple][u][b]world wide[/color][/b][/u] [b][color=red]to combat the “Evangelical Sects”[/color] that are drawing away large numbers of their members.[/b]

The Pope characterized the Evangelical Sects as, “those who have joyful ceremonies with ecstatic utterances and enthusiastic followers.” This leaves no doubt that he was referring to the Charismatic Christians who have made a tremendous impact on Catholics everywhere, particularly in Latin America.

[b]In the past, the pontiff’s warnings about the rise of these “sects” have come during his pilgrimages to places like Latin America, where the Catholic Church has been dominant for centuries. Large numbers of Catholics have been drawn away by Charismatic Missionaries in Mexico and Central and South America. These have been Catholic strongholds since the earliest days of the Conquistadors.[/b]

This time, however, the Pope took the battle cry to the very heart of Catholicism -- Rome itself. In one of the main Churches of Rome, he urged the faithful to show “more faithfulness and courage in carrying out the great undertaking of the ‘new evangelization.’ It is an urgent task,” he added. The “new evangelization” refers to the Pope’s program to shore up faith in Catholics in the Church’s third millennium.

The catalyst for this new concern is the amazing success of Charismatic fellowships in and around Rome. Many Catholics regularly fellowship with these groups that the Pope calls “Evangelical Sects.”

[color=red][b]Historically, pronouncements like this have translated into the deaths of missionaries in Latin America where the zeal of the native followers can turn deadly. [/b].[/color] [/quote]

Edited June 14, 2004 by Bruce S