History Of The Inquisition

[Winchester]

I'm curious as to which inquisitions you were alleging were whitewashed, since I've read much about the inquisitions (since there were multiple ones), good bad and ugly.

Are you referring to the black legends? If so, I understand your revulsion toward all inquisitions, since the lies perpetrated by them were quite awful.

[dUSt]

[phatcatholic]

these should help as a basis for discussion:

[b]The Inquisitions[/b]
--[url="http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/08026a.htm"]Inquisition[/url]
--[url="http://www.catholic.com/library/Inquisition.asp"]The Inquisition[/url]
--[url="http://www.catholiceducation.org/links/jump.cgi?ID=977"]Beyond the Myth of the Inquisition: Ours Is the Golden Age[/url]
--[url="http://www.catholiceducation.org/links/jump.cgi?ID=957"]Inquisition[/url]
--[url="http://www.catholiceducation.org/links/jump.cgi?ID=979"]Status: Inquisition in the Catholic Church[/url]
--[url="http://www.catholiceducation.org/links/jump.cgi?ID=975"]The Inquisition[/url]
--[url="http://www.catholiceducation.org/links/jump.cgi?ID=959"]The Spanish Inquisition[/url]
--[url="http://www.catholiceducation.org/links/jump.cgi?ID=958"]The Myth of the Spanish Inquisition[/url]
--[url="http://www.catholiceducation.org/links/jump.cgi?ID=976"]The Spanish Inquisition: Fact vs. Fiction[/url]
--[url="http://www.catholiceducation.org/links/jump.cgi?ID=3930"]The Truth about the Spanish Inquisition[/url]
--[url="http://www.catholiceducation.org/links/jump.cgi?ID=2719"]The Role of the Inquisition in Europe[/url]
--[url="http://ic.net/~erasmus/RAZ366.HTM"]The Inquisition: Its Purpose and Rationale Within the Mediæval Worldview[/url]
--[url="http://members.tripod.com/~frjoe/inquisition.htm"]The Inquisition and the Church[/url]
--[url="http://www.ewtn.com/library/HOMELIBR/SPANINQ.TXT"]A New Look at the Spanish Inquisition[/url]
--[url="http://www.catholicculture.org/docs/doc_view.cfm?recnum=647"]The Spanish Inquisiton: Fact vs. Fiction[/url]
--[url="http://www.catholic.net/Catholic Church/Periodicals/Dossier/1112-96/article1.html"]Remote Motes and Present Beams: The Inquisition[/url]
--[url="http://www.catholic.net/Catholic Church/Periodicals/Dossier/1112-96/article3.html"]A New Industry: The Inquisition[/url]
--[url="http://www.catholic.net/Catholic Church/Periodicals/Dossier/1112-96/article5.html"]Inquisition on the Web[/url]
--[url="http://www.catholic.net/Catholic Church/Periodicals/Dossier/1112-96/column1.html"]Inquisition[/url]
--[url="http://www.catholicculture.org/docs/doc_view.cfm?recnum=695"]Inquisition Requires Calm, Objective Analysis[/url]
--[url="http://www.catholicapologetics.net/apolo_105.htm"]The "Holy" or "Bloody" Spanish Inquisition[/url]
--[url="http://www.geocities.com/militantis/inquisition2.html"]The Holy Inquisition: Myth or Reality?[/url]
--[url="http://www.cuf.org/nonmemb/inquichurch.pdf"]Inquisition in the Catholic Church[/url]
--[url="http://www.catholicapologetics.info/inquist.htm"]The Inquisition[/url]
--[url="http://www.ewtn.com/library/ANSWERS/INQUIS2.htm"]Inquisitive about the Inquisition[/url]
--[url="http://www.catholic.net/Catholic Church/Periodicals/Dossier/1112-96/column3.html"]One Cheer for Inquisitions[/url]
--[url="http://www.ewtn.com/library/ANSWERS/INQUISIT.htm"]Questions Concerning the Spanish Inquisition[/url]
--[url="http://www.catholic.net/Catholic Church/Periodicals/Dossier/1112-96/column2.html"]Tough Love[/url]

pax christi,
phatcatholic

[Child of God]

Just remember in your examination of "history" that it is most frequently written by those who hold the power. (Be they Catholic, protestant, Muslim, Pagan, or Communist) No history is without bias one way or the other!!

Happy debating!

[Livin_the_MASS]

[quote name='Winchester' date='Jun 11 2004, 12:14 PM'] I'm curious as to which inquisitions you were alleging were whitewashed, since I've read much about the inquisitions (since there were multiple ones), good bad and ugly.

Are you referring to the black legends? If so, I understand your revulsion toward all inquisitions, since the lies perpetrated by them were quite awful. [/quote]


Well Bruce?

[Winchester]

Give the man time.

Bruce, it's a pretty big subject, so I'm sure we'll have to tackle certain specific areas. I will caution you to not assume that I hold a certain position.

[Bruce S]

Nah

I'm not allowed to "take off the gloves" here, whenever I launch hard, I get banned or erased.

If anyone wants to hardball things, I will engage, but in other venues.

Sorry.

Phattmas is just where I dabble, not go deep. I respect YOUR right to hide here, you really should go out into the broader world too.

I keep hearing you guys say "if you want to know about Catholics, go to WHERE they are and ask them"... right?

Same thing, if YOU want to engage others about issues that divide us, go to WHERE they are and ask them, right?

[quote]P. Hermann, Institutiones Theologiae Dogmaticae (4th ed., Rome: Della Pace, 1908), vol. 1, p. 258:

“If she [the Church] were able to prescribe or command or tolerate in her discipline something against faith and morals, or something which tended to the detriment of the Church or to the harm of the faithful, [b]she would turn away from her divine mission, which would be impossible.”[/b] [/quote]

The horrors of the Iquisition certainly HARMED the Catholic Church, and were contrary to all known laws promulgated by Christ, to love each other, so, I will pass on this one here.

I hang on another board where they are mostly former Catholics, there hardball is really the norm, and won't disrupt the carefully crafted harmony that this site has.

I really look at Phatt as more of reinforcement forum where like minded people pat each other on the back telling each other how right they are. Sorry, it is a WELL run and WELL designed site, some of the most effective use of forum graphics and software around, I appreciate all that, and you are a wonderful source of information, but interFAITH dialogue is really not much dialogue and more "come here and sit quietly as we teach you how you can BECOME a Catholic"

Best, and I hope that answers your question.

[quote]2 Peter 2 - Destructive Doctrines

False Teaching and False Teachers

1 But there were also false prophets among the people, even as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Lord who bought them, and bring on themselves swift destruction. 2And many will follow their destructive ways, because of whom the way of truth will be blasphemed. 3By covetousness they will exploit you with deceptive words; for a long time their judgment has not been idle, and their destruction does not slumber[/quote]

Edited June 13, 2004 by Bruce S

[Brother Adam]

I think there were subliminal messages in that post

[Guest JeffCR07]

hahaha, just maybe

[Winchester]

Bruce,

It's not hard hitting that gets you in trouble, it's baiting, and you know that. You're passing me up not for fear of getting locked out, but for fear of being beaten off your turf, which is one of hit and run accusation, not intelligent discourse.

Your tactic, quoting the Bible while saying you will "pass this one by" is typical of your intellectual cowardice and deceptiveness. You are a liar, Bruce. You did not "pass this one by", you made an assertion (one I might point out not backed up by intelligent discourse) and then fled.

[dUSt]

Bruce,

Everyone knows that we welcome interfaith dialogue here. It is rudeness that we do not allow. There have been a great number of non-Catholic debaters here that brought excellent and very persuasive arguments to the table and were never even warned. Please get it right. Your attempts to avoid the argument by blaming it on this phorum or politics is not very honorable.

[dUSt]

[quote]I'm not allowed to "take off the gloves" here, whenever I launch hard, I get banned or erased.[/quote]
Please give me an example of you being banned or erased for a legitimate argument. This phorum keeps a record of every time you were warned or banned Bruce. If you'd like, I'll be glad to publically list the reason of every time it happened. Just let me know.

[quote]If anyone wants to hardball things, I will engage, but in other venues.[/quote]
If other venue's allow rudeness. I hardly see how it would be condusive to a legitimate intelligent discussion.

[quote]Phattmas is just where I dabble, not go deep. I respect YOUR right to hide here, you really should go out into the broader world too.

I keep hearing you guys say "if you want to know about Catholics, go to WHERE they are and ask them"... right?

Same thing, if YOU want to engage others about issues that divide us, go to WHERE they are and ask them, right?[/quote]
Plenty of us do.

[quote]I really look at Phatt as more of reinforcement forum where like minded people pat each other on the back telling each other how right they are. Sorry, it is a WELL run and WELL designed site, some of the most effective use of forum graphics and software around, I appreciate all that, and you are a wonderful source of information, but interFAITH dialogue is really not much dialogue and more "come here and sit quietly as we teach you how you can BECOME a Catholic"[/quote]
Thank you for your compliments.

[Winchester]

I issude the chalenge, so I'll confront the assertions of the man who just let "this one pass".

[quote]The horrors of the Iquisition certainly HARMED the Catholic Church, and were contrary to all known laws promulgated by Christ, to love each other, so, I will pass on this one here.
[/quote]
Problem first: Blanket statement, too general about horrors of "The Inquisition".

Problem second: The Inquisition was not a monolithic entity, thus we have a grievous academic problem.

Problem third: Assumption that the inquisitions harmed the Church without proof. The Church's stance on an all male priesthood certainly reduce Her credibility in the modern world, does this mean She's turned from Her mission?

[Guest JeffCR07]

The one thing I don't understand is this: Up until now, every time you've had a post on phatmass, and the debate becomes "heated" I've asked everyone posting to remain charitable to you Bruce. In the vast majority of cases, they have. But what bugs me about this whole thing is that even after these requests, your posts tend to be either blatantly antagonizing, or subtly biting and sarcastic. I'm pretty sure that [i]every[/i] faith that espouses the teachings of Christ advocates humility and charity, not antagonism and bitterness. It really is possible to hold your believes with a closed fist and still talk to people with an open mind...I know that not all phatmassers are perfect, but we really [i]are[/i] trying to be charitable, and we only ask that you do the same.

And, really, these changes arn't big painful steps to take, and certainly are not as difficult as bearing the weight of a cross upon your shoulders, which we are all called to do. It pretty much just comes down to the way we speak to one another. I [i]could[/i] say "Why would some Protestants [b]ever[/b] believe in [i]sola scriptura[/i] " or I could phrase it as the following: "I was wondering how the concept of [i]sola scriptora[/i] can be justified with the following quotes from scripture. I'm interested in learning more about Protestant theology, and I'd love to hear your response. Thanks a ton!"

I just don't understand why its that hard...

[Mickey's_Girl]

[quote name='JeffCR07' date='Jun 13 2004, 12:03 PM'] I [i]could[/i] say "Why would some Protestants [b]ever[/b] believe in [i]sola scriptura[/i] " or I could phrase it as the following: "I was wondering how the concept of [i]sola scriptora[/i] can be justified with the following quotes from scripture. I'm interested in learning more about Protestant theology, and I'd love to hear your response. Thanks a ton!"
[/quote]
JeffCR07--

Two things. One, I very much appreciate what you're saying here about making a point firmly AND respectfully (respectful of other people's beliefs, intellects, and feelings).

Second, as a Pentecostal Protestant, I appreciate your "some" in "why would some Protestants" above. Hee hee. I've never had the hard-core belief in sola scriptura (because, as many have so eloquently said on this forum, whose interpretation to believe?) that many Protestants do. Thanks for paying attention.

MG