oratefratres Posted January 29, 2015 Share Posted January 29, 2015 I don't get on with a priest. He has banned me from most church activities apart from Sunday mass. Is he allowed to do this? he says i am not allowed to come anymore Like if he belonged to Missionarys of Charity for example, and the church had a Missionarys of Charity public prayer group, a parish rosary group, stations of the cross, etc can i be banned? all those things are advertised as public events, excersised in the name of the society of apostolic life he belongs to - so not private events. i am obvs catholic and in good standing etc etc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted January 29, 2015 Share Posted January 29, 2015 Hm... Maybe? He could not restrict your access to the sacraments. Outside of that, I am not sure if there are specific rules. Sounds like you need a new parish. What has happened to cause this situation anyway? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oratefratres Posted January 29, 2015 Author Share Posted January 29, 2015 Hm... Maybe? He could not restrict your access to the sacraments. Outside of that, I am not sure if there are specific rules. Sounds like you need a new parish. What has happened to cause this situation anyway? what do you mean, if he has a mass in the church then i can come, what if he has a mass at a public event in the private priests oratory ? sometimes events are held in the presbytery the reason is, i complained to him about his behavior toward me. i didnt tell anyone else. but he told loads of important priests that i had been making up lies about him and i was crazy. i kinda wanted to stay in the parish because i am very activie in the church and want to do a lot of activities like homeless shleter work, catholic charity work etc and they need a parish priest referece. looks kinda bad if i enter a new one and the priet barely knows me. plus all my friends are in the parish too. its like my home. i did loads for that parish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted January 29, 2015 Share Posted January 29, 2015 what do you mean, if he has a mass in the church then i can come, what if he has a mass at a public event in the private priests oratory ? sometimes events are held in the presbytery the reason is, i complained to him about his behavior toward me. i didnt tell anyone else. but he told loads of important priests that i had been making up lies about him and i was crazy. i kinda wanted to stay in the parish because i am very activie in the church and want to do a lot of activities like homeless shleter work, catholic charity work etc and they need a parish priest referece. looks kinda bad if i enter a new one and the priet barely knows me. plus all my friends are in the parish too. its like my home. i did loads for that parish. Nobody could restrict your attendance at a public Mass. Except, perhaps, if you were publicly excommunicated or interdicted. Not likely. Private Masses by nature could be restricted in such a manner. Masses at oratories or private chapels and priories might fall under that designation. I am not sure what the specific 'rules' might be, if there are guidelines in place for barring particular people for particular reasons. I simply do not know where this information is or how to find it. Is there a canon lawyer in your diocese to whom you might be able to speak? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oratefratres Posted January 29, 2015 Author Share Posted January 29, 2015 Nobody could restrict your attendance at a public Mass. Except, perhaps, if you were publicly excommunicated or interdicted. Not likely. Private Masses by nature could be restricted in such a manner. Masses at oratories or private chapels and priories might fall under that designation. I am not sure what the specific 'rules' might be, if there are guidelines in place for barring particular people for particular reasons. I simply do not know where this information is or how to find it. Is there a canon lawyer in your diocese to whom you might be able to speak? No idea. but i am able to have a read of the Code myself, was just wondering if anyone else knew I mean i think loads of people get banned from church groups because of all the politics. but not by a priest. and not from something open to the public Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnightofChrist Posted January 29, 2015 Share Posted January 29, 2015 Seems strange. Do you and the Priest disagree on any important issues? Have you been outspoken about some issue? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted January 29, 2015 Share Posted January 29, 2015 I mean i think loads of people get banned from church groups because of all the politics. but not by a priest. and not from something open to the public Yes, it does seem to be a strange situation. I mean, a private group of Catholics, sure. A priest being behind it seems like maybe a conflict of interest or an abuse of power. Hard to say without knowing the situation in depth though. Would there be any way to mediate your relationship with this priest? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oratefratres Posted January 29, 2015 Author Share Posted January 29, 2015 Yes, it does seem to be a strange situation. I mean, a private group of Catholics, sure. A priest being behind it seems like maybe a conflict of interest or an abuse of power. Hard to say without knowing the situation in depth though. Would there be any way to mediate your relationship with this priest? The priest did some bad things to me on a number of occasions. Not sexual ones, and I am not a child I hasten to add. But I felt some were inappropriate and told him so in emails on those times. He wrote me emails saying I was crazy and lying. And I had no evidence. I mean - who brings a recorder or camera to mass? So I didnt tell anyone. Then he told the important priests. One of them told me he was a very good priest and would never do those things, that I was lying, and that they supported his banning of me for making up such horrible lies. It is temporary to give me time to think about what i did and to prove i had amended my ways. They said i demonstrated fluctuating behaviour by keing helpful and kind, but sometimes makign very horrible lies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted January 29, 2015 Share Posted January 29, 2015 The priest did some bad things to me on a number of occasions. Not sexual ones, and I am not a child I hasten to add. But I felt some were inappropriate and told him so in emails on those times. He wrote me emails saying I was crazy and lying. And I had no evidence. I mean - who brings a recorder or camera to mass? So I didnt tell anyone. Then he told the important priests. One of them told me he was a very good priest and would never do those things, that I was lying, and that they supported his banning of me for making up such horrible lies. It is temporary to give me time to think about what i did and to prove i had amended my ways. They said i demonstrated fluctuating behaviour by keing helpful and kind, but sometimes makign very horrible lies. It is difficult. These other priests are in a tough position. If someone is telling lies about a priest, that is a horrible thing. Priests have had their lives ruined over false accusations. But that is exactly why serious accusations have to be investigated thoroughly. We cannot afford to tolerate false accusations, and even less can we afford to ignore credible ones. I dunno... talk to someone anonymously? One of the vicars general, maybe. Or if there is some sort of lay-run committee to provide oversight? It is so hard to say. If what you are going through is reaching very serious levels, you could probably consider a lawsuit for defamation. Probably will not make you any friends, but perhaps it would give you a forum to prove your story, or disprove the false narrative? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oratefratres Posted January 29, 2015 Author Share Posted January 29, 2015 It is difficult. These other priests are in a tough position. If someone is telling lies about a priest, that is a horrible thing. Priests have had their lives ruined over false accusations. But that is exactly why serious accusations have to be investigated thoroughly. We cannot afford to tolerate false accusations, and even less can we afford to ignore credible ones. I dunno... talk to someone anonymously? One of the vicars general, maybe. Or if there is some sort of lay-run committee to provide oversight? It is so hard to say. If what you are going through is reaching very serious levels, you could probably consider a lawsuit for defamation. Probably will not make you any friends, but perhaps it would give you a forum to prove your story, or disprove the false narrative? well i only told them TO the priest who did them. and anyway, how can they investigate? a priest slaps a person or grabs their goolies, no one is around and the church has no CCTV. how it is proved? a priest yells something abusive at a person. how do yu prove? going forward they might record it if it happens again. but if they want to accuse him of something he did last week, they cant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted January 29, 2015 Share Posted January 29, 2015 well i only told them TO the priest who did them. and anyway, how can they investigate? a priest slaps a person or grabs their goolies, no one is around and the church has no CCTV. how it is proved? a priest yells something abusive at a person. how do yu prove? going forward they might record it if it happens again. but if they want to accuse him of something he did last week, they cant. Presumably defamation might be easier to prove in your case, as you said the first priest told several(?) others. They could confirm that he did in fact tell them certain things about you. I believe the way defamation works is that it would then be up to the priest to demonstrate either qualified privilege, or that what he said was true/in good faith, etc. You would have to demonstrate damages, which I think would include banning from church events. Anyway, I am not a lawyer. Obviously. If that was the route you wanted to investigate, you would need a real one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oratefratres Posted January 29, 2015 Author Share Posted January 29, 2015 Presumably defamation might be easier to prove in your case, as you said the first priest told several(?) others. They could confirm that he did in fact tell them certain things about you. I believe the way defamation works is that it would then be up to the priest to demonstrate either qualified privilege, or that what he said was true/in good faith, etc. You would have to demonstrate damages, which I think would include banning from church events. Anyway, I am not a lawyer. Obviously. If that was the route you wanted to investigate, you would need a real one. You have to have suffered a loss to sue for defamation. plus if i was suing a priest...he has no money and probably you would go to hell. i just wanted him to stop bullying me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted January 29, 2015 Share Posted January 29, 2015 You have to have suffered a loss to sue for defamation. plus if i was suing a priest...he has no money and probably you would go to hell. i just wanted him to stop bullying me Your reputation and participation in church activities would count. Plus you would be suing the diocese. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oratefratres Posted January 29, 2015 Author Share Posted January 29, 2015 Your reputation and participation in church activities would count. Plus you would be suing the diocese. No I mean you have to have suffered measurable financial loss . i dont want to sue people! i just want him to stop bullying me and to be un banned Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted January 29, 2015 Share Posted January 29, 2015 No I mean you have to have suffered measurable financial loss . i dont want to sue people! i just want him to stop bullying me and to be un banned I believe that damage to one's reputation can suffice in a defamation suit. It would not be about 'suing people', but like I said it is about defending your good name, to which you do have a moral right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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