PhuturePriest Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 This is a really good yet brief commentary on the wording, with quotes and all: http://www.catholicworldreport.com/Blog/3640/someone_is_getting_lost_in_all_this_talk_about_francis_and_rabbits.aspx All I can think of is the heart attack Michael Matt is experiencing right now. :| Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 This is a really good yet brief commentary on the wording, with quotes and all: http://www.catholicworldreport.com/Blog/3640/someone_is_getting_lost_in_all_this_talk_about_francis_and_rabbits.aspx All I can think of is the heart attack Michael Matt is experiencing right now. :| If anything would it would be that rumour of a Third Vatican Council. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archaeology cat Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 From the transcript of the interview: I think the number of 3 (children) per family that you mentioned, it is the one experts say is important to keep the population going,. three per couple. When it goes below this, the other extreme happens, like what is happing in Italy. I have heard, I do not know if it is true, that in 2024 there will be no money to pay pensioners (because of) the fall in population. Therefore, to give you an answer, they key word is the one the Church always uses all the time and even I use it: it is responsible parenthood. how do we do this? With dialogue. Each person with his pastor seeks how to do that responsible parenthood. That example i mentioned shortly before about that woman who was expecting her eighth (child) and already had seven who were born with caesareans. That is an irresponsibility (That woman might say) 'no but I trust in god' But God gives you methods to be responsible. Some think that, excuse me if i use that word, that in order to be good Catholics we have to be like rabbits. No. Responsible parenthood! This is clear and that is why in the church there are marriage groups, there are experts in this matter, there are pastors, one can seek and i know so many, many ways out that are licit and that have helped this. You did well to ask me this. So he isn't saying couples should only have 3, or that that is the absolute ideal. And his comment about the c/s was for a specific woman. The risks to mother and child increase with each c/s, and if she's in an area that doesn't have the best antenatal and intrapartum/postnatal care, intentionally getting pregnant after 7 c/s could be construed as irresponsible because of the real risk of death to mother and child. Some women may heal better from them than others, too, so it isn't a blanket statement or anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4588686 Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 Pope Francis says that Catholics don't need to "breed like rabbits," and that 3 children per family is about right. He chastised a woman who was pregnant with her eighth child after 7 C-Sections, telling her that she was "tempting God." He said that what she did was "an irresponsibility." Discuss. Yep. That is all true. Good for the Pope Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ancilla Domini Posted January 21, 2015 Author Share Posted January 21, 2015 Yep. That is all true. Good for the Pope I thought you were the pope. I am confused. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oremus Pro Invicem Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 Rabbits don't need to breed like Catholics! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ancilla Domini Posted January 21, 2015 Author Share Posted January 21, 2015 "It is true that the Pope’s comments have been (predictably) mangled." Why is it that this is the only pope whose comments are "predictably mangled"? I don't remember any of this when Benedict was pope. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
little2add Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 Lies The pope is not pro- choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amppax Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 "It is true that the Pope’s comments have been (predictably) mangled." Why is it that this is the only pope whose comments are "predictably mangled"? I don't remember any of this when Benedict was pope. Then you weren't paying attention, or are too young to remember (and before you jump down my throat, and say I'm unfairly referring to age, I really wasn't much older, and don't remember a lot myself). Condoms anyone? Regensburg? There was plenty of media misinterpretation during Benedict's pontificate. Could it be there has been more with Francis? Yeah, but it certainly isn't a problem unique to him. I agree with Nihil, he often expresses himself poorly, but he's not the only one this happens with, and laying all blame on him is unfair. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 Personally, I do not think he cares whether or not he is misinterpreted. Which would be a departure from previous pontificate. But that is an opinion only, of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amppax Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 Personally, I do not think he cares whether or not he is misinterpreted. Which would be a departure from previous pontificate. But that is an opinion only, of course. I think so too. For better or for worse, probably for worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maggyie Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 I put myself in the woman's shoes. In the initial incident I would probably have told him, "you know what, Holy Father, that particular horse has left the barn, but thanks for your insights into womens' healthcare." That's exactly what a woman who is pregnant wants to hear, is to be upbraided for her condition which she can't do anything about at this point. By a MAN. I mean at least she'll have nine months to experience futile guilt and regret, along with exhaustion and morning sickness? The Pope told me I'm a bad mother! The pope! Then months later he uses her as an EXAMPLE for the global media as a bad irresponsible mother. Like preachers of old would use the local girl who was too familiar with too many men. Except you know it's the POPE and they're going to write about you and your irresponsibility in the New York Times. I mean imagine when the baby comes. Hey Janie you're the one the POPE said was a mistake! I think an important part of effective pope-ing is refraining from humiliating people. And once again I'm in the position of appreciating what he's saying (mom of 0 living children here) but being completely appalled... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
veritasluxmea Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 I don't really have much to say on it, but for some reason I just feel appalled as well. Of course, people need to be responsible and not have kids if they have grave reason and all that, but still. Something about this just repels me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 I put myself in the woman's shoes. In the initial incident I would probably have told him, "you know what, Holy Father, that particular horse has left the barn, but thanks for your insights into womens' healthcare." That's exactly what a woman who is pregnant wants to hear, is to be upbraided for her condition which she can't do anything about at this point. By a MAN. I mean at least she'll have nine months to experience futile guilt and regret, along with exhaustion and morning sickness? The Pope told me I'm a bad mother! The pope! Then months later he uses her as an EXAMPLE for the global media as a bad irresponsible mother. Like preachers of old would use the local girl who was too familiar with too many men. Except you know it's the POPE and they're going to write about you and your irresponsibility in the New York Times. I mean imagine when the baby comes. Hey Janie you're the one the POPE said was a mistake! I think an important part of effective pope-ing is refraining from humiliating people. And once again I'm in the position of appreciating what he's saying (mom of 0 living children here) but being completely appalled... I think this is a pretty reasonable reaction. I mean, if Pope Francis were speaking negatively about a woman who aborted her baby, that would be one thing. But this is... a very odd thing to comment on. It is not a story that is in the news. Nobody on earth knows who he is talking about, except this one woman who now probably feels like just the worst person ever. And possibly some of her close relations too, which is even worse. And then on top of that, since none of us have a clue about her, how are we to think about it? Do we imagine that this mythical woman is a bad person and a selfish mother? Or do we try to assume that she is actually quite a good woman whom the Pope has seriously and callously misjudged? Which is the more charitable response? Do we assume this woman in fact is just a hypothetical invented by Pope Francis? It is just strange. Was it necessary to make an example of this one random woman? I find it undignified. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amppax Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 This example seems almost exactly like the example my professor used last semester in my moral theology class, interestingly enough. To make the same point. Now I'm going to have to look back at my notes. That being said, saying this to a mother or about one, not onboard with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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