Regina Magazine Featuring Dominican Nuns!

[Sr Mary Catharine OP]

Those were lay nuns. Externs were not religious nor did they wear the habit of the Order until about the 50's. They were a sort of habit usually black.Nor were they ever allowed inside. Now they usually live inside but a monastery could decide they wouldn't.

 

The lay nuns allowed to change to the white scapular around the 30's. Not sure of the exact date. They retained the white veil but were in solemn vows. They prayed their own psalter or a number of hail Mary's, Our Father's, etc. They managed and did most of the manual work of the monastery and it was a huge transition when their category was dissolved.

[Obonitas!]

Forgive my ignorance, so does lay nuns mean "Third Order" like Saint Catherine of Siena? And is it true that today Third Order Dominicans are buried in the habit? I don't know when the pictures from the magazine (showing your history) was taken, but I'm afraid from your answer, I'm a little confused. Thanks for your help. Great article!

[Sr Mary Catharine OP]

Lay nun/sisters were not 3rd order. They were nuns with solemn vows but they did the more manual work of the house. They weren't bound to say the Divine Office but said their own psalter, prayers, etc. They were often not educated. Many orders/congregations had this 2 class system. They were really like the servants of the house. They had no vote at Chapter, etc. They had their own mistress of lay sisters who would read to them as they worked. At certain times Trappist monasteries had more lay brothers than choir monks. They knew their work, they were proud of it and many resented it when the lay category was removed,

Our friars have what was called "lay brother" but they are called cooperator brothers. They don't become priests. However, now they are fully members of the chapter, can vote, etc. It's a beautiful vocation for those who want to be Dominican friars but don't feel called to be priests or feel called to be especially academic although some lay brothers are extremely educated and tops in their particular field.

 

I believe that the Carthusians have retained some sort of lay brother/sister that they call converse nun.

Yes, 3rd Order Dominicans: Priest and Lay Fraternities of St. Dominic is the official name, may be buried in the habit. But the woman are not to wear the veil. It sometimes freaks the family out! The "3rd Order" are truly members of the Order of Preachers but not religious.

 

If you are confused get in line! These things were not so clearly spelled out 800 years ago as things are now and so it can cause confusion!

 

I hope I cleared it up a little!

[Nunsuch]

In the document on Religious Life that was promulgated by the Second Vatican Council, the following was said about lay sisters: "Unless conditions really suggest something else, care should be taken that there be only one class of Sisters in communities of women. Only that distinction of persons should be retained which corresponds to-the diversity of works for which the Sisters are destined, either by special vocation from God or by reason of special aptitude."  

 

As Sister Mary Catharine noted, lay sisters were traditionally less educated, and typically brought a smaller dowry to the community. They did not participate in the governance of the community, either by serving in office or by voting. They often wore a different habit.  This was particularly problematic for apostolic communities in the US, including active Dominican Sisters, who had a difficult time retaining lay sisters in the more democratic climate of the US.  Many communities, especially apostolic ones, abolished the status of lay sister (or never had it), long before Vatican II.  

 

The whole "class/rank" thing goes back to the medieval period, when "ladies" would be accompanied into the cloister by their servants. Obviously, this is no longer relevant. Also, I think the reason that Perfectae Caritatis discussed the lay status differently for women's and men's communities was because, for men, the matter of ordination also factored in. For women, this was of course not an issue.

 

I am giving a paper this spring at a scholarly conference on the abolition of the "lay sister" status at Vatican II, so this is something that interests me a lot. Hope this is informative.

[Obonitas!]

This is informative! The Carthusians have (in my case!) Nuns, Sisters and Donates. I guess for the male side it would be Priests (Monks), Brothers, and Donates. All are treated the same in terms of recreation and other things, the only difference being that of mandatory Choir, and of course voting. They do the walks, eat together, etcetera. But, as we all know, the Carthusians are definitely "different" and still retain much of the Eastern traditions as well as rites. I'm still learning!!! Thanks, everybody who answered.