ST BERNARD Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 Do you agree with the Pope that people who curse your mother or insult your religion should get a punch on the nose? Is this in keeping with Jesus' statement that if someone strikes you on the cheek, you should turn the other cheek? Interested in hearing the views of others. http://www.theage.com.au/world/pope-says-those-who-insult-religion-should-expect-a-punch-on-the-nose-20150115-12rhtm.html Gesturing towards Alberto Gasparri, a Vatican official who was next to him on board the plane, he said: "If my good friend Dr Gasparri says a curse word against my mother, he can expect a punch on the nose". Throwing a pretend punch, the Pope said: "It's normal. You cannot provoke. You cannot insult the faith of others". [mod]The Pope didn't make a prescriptive statement. He did joke around a little about punching people. He didn't say it was okay, or that it should happen.--Winnie[/mod] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhuturePriest Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 I'm sorry, but at this point I have to expose you for the obvious troll you are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ST BERNARD Posted January 16, 2015 Author Share Posted January 16, 2015 I'm sorry, but at this point I have to expose you for the obvious troll you are. I told myself that I wouldn't respond to any of your posts anymore, since they are obviously designed to be inflammatory, but this one really stumps me. To what do I owe this assertion? The article showed up on my Twitter feed (I subscribe to a lot of different news feeds and TV news feeds) and I didn't know how I felt about it since I try to be a pacifist and 'turn the other cheek', but then again I also understand the concept of self-defense and defense of one's loved ones, family, friends etc, so I was conflicted about how I felt. I decided to post a poll here to see if anyone else also felt conflicted because of what Jesus said vs what the Pope is saying.How is this being a troll? I thought that a troll was someone who posted to upset others. If that is the case, then I think your posts qualify more than mine do. Anyway, back to ignoring you. I am sure that someone will have something intelligent to say about this topic and I can actually try to discover how I feel about it myself. If you have nothing more to contribute than insults, perhaps you would be so good as not to post in this thread as I would like some thoughtful insights. Thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhuturePriest Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 I told myself that I wouldn't respond to any of your posts anymore, since they are obviously designed to be inflammatory, but this one really stumps me. To what do I owe this assertion? The article showed up on my Twitter feed (I subscribe to a lot of different news feeds and TV news feeds) and I didn't know how I felt about it since I try to be a pacifist and 'turn the other cheek', but then again I also understand the concept of self-defense and defense of one's loved ones, family, friends etc, so I was conflicted about how I felt. I decided to post a poll here to see if anyone else also felt conflicted because of what Jesus said vs what the Pope is saying.How is this being a troll? I thought that a troll was someone who posted to upset others. If that is the case, then I think your posts qualify more than mine do. Anyway, back to ignoring you. I am sure that someone will have something intelligent to say about this topic and I can actually try to discover how I feel about it myself. If you have nothing more to contribute than insults, perhaps you would be so good as not to post in this thread as I would like some thoughtful insights. Thank you. My posts are not designed to upset others. They are designed to make myself laugh and, hopefully, others as well. The common definition of a troll is a lot different in other places than it is here, really. Here, a "troll" is just someone who makes jokes and posts funny memes in order to make others laugh, most often designed to relieve tension and calm down a fight. In that, I am a troll. However, in other places, the definition you gave more succinctly defines a troll. A troll here may upset people by virtue of not being as serious as this or that person wants them to be, but that is not the intention of the troll. It must be noted that if someone is intentionally being mean to you (or you to them), that is against phorum rules and should be reported. And my posts are not designed to be inflammatory, thank you very much. That's simply a side-effect of me speaking. ^ That was self-deprecation, just in case you were confused by it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ST BERNARD Posted January 16, 2015 Author Share Posted January 16, 2015 My posts are not designed to upset others. They are designed to make myself laugh and, hopefully, others as well. The common definition of a troll is a lot different in other places than it is here, really. Here, a "troll" is just someone who makes jokes and posts funny memes in order to make others laugh, most often designed to relieve tension and calm down a fight. In that, I am a troll. However, in other places, the definition you gave more succinctly defines a troll. A troll here may upset people by virtue of not being as serious as this or that person wants them to be, but that is not the intention of the troll. It must be noted that if someone is intentionally being mean to you (or you to them), that is against phorum rules and should be reported. And my posts are not designed to be inflammatory, thank you very much. That's simply a side-effect of me speaking. ^ That was self-deprecation, just in case you were confused by it. Well, if your definition of a troll here is to make jokes and post funny memes, then why would you accuse me of being one? I don't post jokes and I have posted only one cartoon. And if your intention is to calm down others and relieve tension, then your posts are failing miserably as they seem to incite more than calm. Making an inflammatory post and then following it with a silly meme only serves to make you appear callous and uncaring of others' feelings. As a new poster here, my observations of your posts is that you like to stir up trouble and then act like you are trying to still the waters, while all the time you are reveling in any kind of attention. If you really do want to do what you say then perhaps you need to examine your conscience and reassess your style of posting? But I bet that all you really want is more attention. Go for it. It's not attractive but if it's all you are capable of at this point in time, then so be it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhuturePriest Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 Well, if your definition of a troll here is to make jokes and post funny memes, then why would you accuse me of being one? I don't post jokes and I have posted only one cartoon. And if your intention is to calm down others and relieve tension, then your posts are failing miserably as they seem to incite more than calm. Making an inflammatory post and then following it with a silly meme only serves to make you appear callous and uncaring of others' feelings. As a new poster here, my observations of your posts is that you like to stir up trouble and then act like you are trying to still the waters, while all the time you are reveling in any kind of attention. If you really do want to do what you say then perhaps you need to examine your conscience and reassess your style of posting? But I bet that all you really want is more attention. Go for it. It's not attractive but if it's all you are capable of at this point in time, then so be it. If it means anything, I hold no ill-will towards you and do not wish to form any sort of rivalry or grudge between us. Believe it or not, I do actually like peace and don't like fighting and drama. For the record, you're coming into Phatmass at a very unusually tense time that I don't feel is showing the best of any of us right now. We're usually much more presentable and likeable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ST BERNARD Posted January 16, 2015 Author Share Posted January 16, 2015 If it means anything, I hold no ill-will towards you and do not wish to form any sort of rivalry or grudge between us. Believe it or not, I do actually like peace and don't like fighting and drama. For the record, you're coming into Phatmass at a very unusually tense time that I don't feel is showing the best of any of us right now. We're usually much more presentable and likeable. I don't seem to be having problems with anyone but you. I don't dislike you - you aren't fully formed yet. I will reserve my judgment until you actually grow up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhuturePriest Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 I don't seem to be having problems with anyone but you. I don't dislike you - you aren't fully formed yet. I will reserve my judgment until you actually grow up. It does help to know that an online persona is not who someone really is. I've been told by many clergy and religious that I'm one of the most mature young men my age they've ever met, and I have it on good authority that at least two priests and three brothers would be willing to recommend me to seminary if I asked them, which I will be beginning the application process on the 22nd, so that is quite handy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ST BERNARD Posted January 16, 2015 Author Share Posted January 16, 2015 It does help to know that an online persona is not who someone really is. I've been told by many clergy and religious that I'm one of the most mature young men my age they've ever met, and I have it on good authority that at least two priests and three brothers would be willing to recommend me to seminary if I asked them, which I will be beginning the application process on the 22nd, so that is quite handy. You have turned this thread into something that is all about YOU. And you never answered my question as to why you would call me a troll when your description of a troll is to make jokes and post silly memes. You hijacked and derailed this thread. It isn't always about YOU, young man. Honest, it isn't. I wanted some real conversation and debate in this thread but now we have been reduced to a personal recommendation from you about you, telling us how wonderful other people (unknown to us) think you are. For the sake of all that is holy, do a self-examination of conscience and be silent for a little while unless you have something to post that isn't all about YOU, YOU, YOU. Please. :pray: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhuturePriest Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 You have turned this thread into something that is all about YOU. And you never answered my question as to why you would call me a troll when your description of a troll is to make jokes and post silly memes. You hijacked and derailed this thread. It isn't always about YOU, young man. Honest, it isn't. I wanted some real conversation and debate in this thread but now we have been reduced to a personal recommendation from you about you, telling us how wonderful other people (unknown to us) think you are. For the sake of all that is holy, do a self-examination of conscience and be silent for a little while unless you have something to post that isn't all about YOU, YOU, YOU. Please. :pray: If you'll forgive me speaking about my past experiences on Phatmass: I remember when I first went on Phatmass and got really angry because everyone always derailed the threads with unrelated banter and pony memes. But then I learned a very valuable piece of information that has lasted me these three years: Every thread gets derailed. Every. Single. One. It's kind of what we specialize in here. We can't go two pages without talking about something completely off-topic, and we can't go one page without posting a meme. Speaking of which, this thread has yet to get one, and I would like to do the honors with a meme I have just created specially for this occasion: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ST BERNARD Posted January 16, 2015 Author Share Posted January 16, 2015 If you'll forgive me speaking about my past experiences on Phatmass: I remember when I first went on Phatmass and got really angry because everyone always derailed the threads with unrelated banter and pony memes. But then I learned a very valuable piece of information that has lasted me these three years: Every thread gets derailed. Every. Single. One. It's kind of what we specialize in here. We can't go two pages without talking about something completely off-topic, and we can't go one page without posting a meme. Speaking of which, this thread has yet to get one, and I would like to do the honors with a meme I have just created specially for this occasion: Once again, it's always all about you. Even in the Debate Table. You really can't see it, can you? How sad. I guess I'll do one of those internal/external sighs and just accept that you are not going to get any better and go back to ignoring you. At least that way I won't be feeding you. Post away. God may reward me at some future time by having someone who actually has something interesting to say post on this thread. Until then, I leave you to your self-amusement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhuturePriest Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ST BERNARD Posted January 16, 2015 Author Share Posted January 16, 2015 (edited) Nihil, I'm actually sorry I started it now, but I was hoping for some intelligent conversation. But I agree that it might be time to abandon all hope - hijackedand derailed - there's no coming back from that! :) Edited January 16, 2015 by ST BERNARD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luigi Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 I agree with the pope saying that people need to learn some respect. The much vaunted "free speech" of the constitution was never intended to mean, "I can say anything to anyone at any time and expect to get away with it." It was intended to protect political speech - "The president is dong a lousy job" and not expect to be hanged, drawn, and quartered for it. But you can't slander - that's illegal speech. You can't falsely advertise - that's illegal speech. You can't misrepresent the condition of your house when you sell it - that's illegal speech. You can't holler "Fire!" in a crowded theater - that's illegal speech. You can't falsely testify in court - that's illegal speech. There are lots of kinds of speech that are not protected by "free speech." In recent times, a new class of non-free speech has been created - it's called hate speech. Cyber-bullying may not be quite illegal yet, but some people are pushing for it to be defined and made illegal. For that matter, the long tradition of name-calling on the playground is functionally illegal. Additionally, some people think that the only rules in life they have to follow are laws. That's incorrect, simplistic, and problematic. We also need to live by the cultural norms of a society, the social customs of a people, the politeness expectations of those with whom we interact. And in this ever-globalizing world, we need to be aware of the cultural norms, the social customs, and the politeness expectations of a whole lot more people. I don't know that Jesus would have socked St. Peter in the nose of St. Peter had insulted Mary, but I do think Jesus would have given St. Peter a lesson on respect. And (because he lives outside of time) he might even have broken into song and quoted Aretha Franklin! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6FOUqQt3Kg0 and https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cGXU7268Z50 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ST BERNARD Posted January 16, 2015 Author Share Posted January 16, 2015 (edited) I agree with the pope saying that people need to learn some respect. The much vaunted "free speech" of the constitution was never intended to mean, "I can say anything to anyone at any time and expect to get away with it." It was intended to protect political speech - "The president is dong a lousy job" and not expect to be hanged, drawn, and quartered for it. But you can't slander - that's illegal speech. You can't falsely advertise - that's illegal speech. You can't misrepresent the condition of your house when you sell it - that's illegal speech. You can't holler "Fire!" in a crowded theater - that's illegal speech. You can't falsely testify in court - that's illegal speech. There are lots of kinds of speech that are not protected by "free speech." In recent times, a new class of non-free speech has been created - it's called hate speech. Cyber-bullying may not be quite illegal yet, but some people are pushing for it to be defined and made illegal. For that matter, the long tradition of name-calling on the playground is functionally illegal. Additionally, some people think that the only rules in life they have to follow are laws. That's incorrect, simplistic, and problematic. We also need to live by the cultural norms of a society, the social customs of a people, the politeness expectations of those with whom we interact. And in this ever-globalizing world, we need to be aware of the cultural norms, the social customs, and the politeness expectations of a whole lot more people. I don't know that Jesus would have socked St. Peter in the nose of St. Peter had insulted Mary, but I do think Jesus would have given St. Peter a lesson on respect. And (because he lives outside of time) he might even have broken into song and quoted Aretha Franklin! Thank you for your thoughts on this. Finally, a post that relates to the topic.I do understand and agree that there have to be limits, but I guess I'm just not sure where they are and what the punishment should be. Hate speech is wrong, but are the laws applied equally and are they even determined yet? If it's ok to hate on one religion (for example), why is it not ok to hate on another? Shouldn't they all be treated with respect? But then again what about satire and parody? What was once considered obscene and foul language when used by comedians to shock and inflame others, is now used on TV and in films without a blink of the eye! So where does free speech end and hate speech begin? This thread is an example of it. When is it ok to post an accusation and then hide it behind supposed comedy? This is free speech, isn't it? But is it justified? So apart from things like actual slander (lying) - is it ok for someone to say something in a (to them) funny way and expect the other person to 'have a sense of humor'? What if St Peter made fun of Mary in front of Jesus, but in a way that he could later say was 'just joking' - and 'why don't you have a sense of humor about it?'. Would that be ok? Now that is a stupid example because Jesus knows who is joking or not, but if you get the principle behind it, I am asking where does one draw the line between humor / free speech and hate speech or just plain offensive speech? Of course the Charlie Hebdo thing made me aware of all this, but the Pope's recent comment about punching someone in the nose who offends us really made me question what I believe about it all. If we can stay on track for a little while, I am seriously interested in what others think about this. Edited January 16, 2015 by ST BERNARD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now