Nihil Obstat Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 My hype man has to like Voris. It's my only standard, and I'm not willing to lower it. (And yes, I am aware that greatly shortens the list of candidates Phatmass has to offer.) Everyone has their price. Hype-men's prices are known to be quite low. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhuturePriest Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 Everyone has their price. Hype-men's prices are known to be quite low. Scratch that: I'm willing to take on a non-Vorisite (That's what I affectionately term myself and others who are fans of Voris) so long as they worship the ground I walk on and are thus easily manipulated into liking him eventually. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
veritasluxmea Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 I see nothing wrong with pointing out that supposedly "pro-life" people are in favor of stopping life from happening. I don't see the need for the outrage. And I would very much like to remind you that we are to speak charitably of others, and saying Michael Voris is close to Satan because he exposed how anti-life many pro-lifers are is anything but charitable. Dare I say even a sin. I wanted to address your joke without saying "no omgosh stop comparing people to Satan and putting BM on the spot like that, it's rude" so I pretended to roll with it. I apologize if I actually did come off as comparing him with Satan. For the record, I disprove of the way people tend to get angry and emotional about Michael Voris, including the tone of the article I posted. I respect him as a fellow Catholic and I'm sure there's much we can agree on. As for the March for Life, I still stand by the critiques in the article (despite the tone). The March for Life includes many non-Catholics, most notably Protestants but I have also walked with Atheists and even a Pagan. People of those beliefs tend to fall for the lie of contraception, which is anti-life. However, even they understand that abortion is murder and harmful for everyone involved. (That's pretty obvious, while without the guidance of the Church contraception can easier to miss.) The March for Life is against abortion, not contraception. The fact that most non-Catholics who are against abortion accept contraception does not invalidate their stand against abortion. I would love to see a stronger stand against contraception in our culture, and I have seen anti-contraception materials at various Marches, but it is designed to politically and socially address abortion, not contraception. Pointing out that contraception leads to an abortion mentality and is anti-life is one thing, but claiming that anti-abortion but pro-contraception people are completely anti-life is flawed. Unfortunately, Michael Voris did the latter and handled the March poorly. Is the entire March anti-life because it doesn't address contraception and works with people who believe in it? No, the March is very pro-life, although it addresses only one issue; it addresses it well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 Scratch that: I'm willing to take on a non-Vorisite (That's what I affectionately term myself and others who are fans of Voris) so long as they worship the ground I walk on and are thus easily manipulated into liking him eventually. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OdZ0r5-70X0&feature=youtu.be&t=1h39m28s Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhuturePriest Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 I wanted to address your joke without saying "no omgosh stop comparing people to Satan and putting BM on the spot like that, it's rude" so I pretended to roll with it. I apologize if I actually did come off as comparing him with Satan. For the record, I disprove of the way people tend to get angry and emotional about Michael Voris, including the tone of the article I posted. I respect him as a fellow Catholic and I'm sure there's much we can agree on. As for the March for Life, I still stand by the critiques in the article (despite the tone). The March for Life includes many non-Catholics, most notably Protestants but I have also walked with Atheists and even a Pagan. People of those beliefs tend to fall for the lie of contraception, which is anti-life. However, even they understand that abortion is murder and harmful for everyone involved. (That's pretty obvious, while without the guidance of the Church contraception can easier to miss.) The March for Life is against abortion, not contraception. The fact that most non-Catholics who are against abortion accept contraception does not invalidate their stand against abortion. I would love to see a stronger stand against contraception in our culture, and I have seen anti-contraception materials at various Marches, but it is designed to politically and socially address abortion, not contraception. Pointing out that contraception leads to an abortion mentality and is anti-life is one thing, but claiming that anti-abortion but pro-contraception people are completely anti-life is flawed. Unfortunately, Michael Voris did the latter and handled the March poorly. Is the entire March anti-life because it doesn't address contraception and works with people who believe in it? No, the March is very pro-life, although it addresses only one issue; it addresses it well. I watched the video when it came out, and he asks them specifically if they are Christian. The issue is that, as Pope Paul VI said, contraception leads to abortion. You'll never get rid of abortion if people aren't against contraception. The March for Life is but a mere social spectacle that will never accomplish anything if its attendants aren't against contraception as well as abortion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winchester Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 The best way to break through a castle wall is by repeatedly smashing it with trebuchet fire, and let's be honest, the cultural dogma that we all have one special person we're supposed to marry is a very thick castle wall. Leave other people's castles alone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
veritasluxmea Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 I watched the video when it came out, and he asks them specifically if they are Christian. Christian, not Catholic. Key words here that were misused in the video. The issue is that, as Pope Paul VI said, contraception leads to abortion. You'll never get rid of abortion if people aren't against contraception. The March for Life is but a mere social spectacle that will never accomplish anything if its attendants aren't against contraception as well as abortion. Yes, contraception leads to abortion. I think we will have to agree to disagree on the bolded. The March can- and does- have amazing success on a political and social level. From lowering abortion rates and helping pass laws restricting abortion, to touching thousands of people on a personal level and saving over a hundred babies (that we know of) each year through 40 Days for Life, to being instrumental in the closing of abortion clinics most notably in Texas, and to helping form the most pro-life generation of youth we've seen in a while, the March and 40 Days go beyond being a mere spectacle to actually making a difference in the right direction. (Both movements work with people who accept contraception. Again, that does not invalidate their pro-life stand on abortion, although I would agree they are not completely pro-life.) Does not addressing contraception hinder their efforts against abortion? Probably yes. Are they still successful in addressing abortion? Very. I wouldn't be surprised if it eventually led to the banning of abortion in America. Frankly, until I see each of the critiques raised in the article properly addressed, I will stand by the position that this particular issue was mishandled by his video. I don't know about the rest of his videos and I'm not trying to dis Michael Voris in general, I just want to address this video in particular. The rest of his videos may be amazing and he does have a point about needing to be against contraception, but this video and March was handled poorly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basilisa Marie Posted January 15, 2015 Author Share Posted January 15, 2015 I must ask: Who in your eyes is closer to Satan: Matt Walsh, or Michael Voris? I refuse to answer that question. :) Lately I have more patience for Walsh than I do for Voris, so if you're trying to ask which one I 'prefer,' I'd say Walsh. Voris is just... I can't even. Walsh is abrasive and self-righteous, Voris is abrasive and self-righteous while spreading hatred for people within the Church. So. Yeah. *shrug* I have yet to see Voris produce anything comparable to this article, where I could say "Hey, this one is good!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhuturePriest Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 (edited) Christian, not Catholic. Key words here that were misused in the video. Yes, contraception leads to abortion. I think we will have to agree to disagree on the bolded. The March can- and does- have amazing success on a political and social level. From lowering abortion rates and helping pass laws restricting abortion, to touching thousands of people on a personal level and saving over a hundred babies (that we know of) each year through 40 Days for Life, to being instrumental in the closing of abortion clinics most notably in Texas, and to helping form the most pro-life generation of youth we've seen in a while, the March and 40 Days go beyond being a mere spectacle to actually making a difference in the right direction. (Both movements work with people who accept contraception. Again, that does not invalidate their pro-life stand on abortion, although I would agree they are not completely pro-life.) Does not addressing contraception hinder their efforts against abortion? Probably yes. Are they still successful in addressing abortion? Very. I wouldn't be surprised if it eventually led to the banning of abortion in America. Frankly, until I see each of the critiques raised in the article properly addressed, I will stand by the position that this particular issue was mishandled by his video. I don't know about the rest of his videos and I'm not trying to dis Michael Voris in general, I just want to address this video in particular. The rest of his videos may be amazing and he does have a point about needing to be against contraception, but this video and March was handled poorly. A Christian who adheres to contraception is on a slippery slope. Again, as Pope Paul VI said, contraception and abortion go hand in hand. Contraception inevitably and irrevocably leads to the other, no matter how devout and Christian you are. I'm not saying it hasn't done good. I'm saying it will never abolish abortion in America because most of the people in the pro-life movement support and use something which inherently leads to abortion. It's like saying you're against one side of the coin but support the other. I in no way see how his video was "divisive". He pointed out a contradiction in many people in the pro-life movement. That's not divisive, that's stating facts. If the facts divide you, that's your problem, not his. You're basically upset at the messenger because he informed everyone that the house was on fire. It's not logical. Edited January 15, 2015 by PhuturePriest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhuturePriest Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 I refuse to answer that question. :) Lately I have more patience for Walsh than I do for Voris, so if you're trying to ask which one I 'prefer,' I'd say Walsh. Voris is just... I can't even. Walsh is abrasive and self-righteous, Voris is abrasive and self-righteous while spreading hatred for people within the Church. So. Yeah. *shrug* I have yet to see Voris produce anything comparable to this article, where I could say "Hey, this one is good!" You should watch one of his talks. Many only know him from The Vortex, but they don't realize what he actually does full-time is go around the world and do talks everywhere from America, Africa, the Philippines, and the UK. All of them are online to watch for free on the website. He almost completely changes character from when he's on The Vortex; he's generally very lighthearted and laughs a lot. I spent a week with a Brother who used to work with him, and he said Michael in person is one of the most friendly and nice people you'll ever meet. He simply gets very serious when he does The Vortex, and he's very blunt and to the point, which I understand is not everyone's style. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4588686 Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 w Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhuturePriest Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 w In German, 'W' makes the 'V' noise. So that means my original German name would be pronounced "Schveigenhauer". Just thought I would waste five seconds of your time with that stimulating information. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4588686 Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 erw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not The Philosopher Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 What is happening in this thread Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
veritasluxmea Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 A Christian who adheres to contraception is on a slippery slope. Again, as Pope Paul VI said, contraception and abortion go hand in hand. Contraception inevitably and irrevocably leads to the other, no matter how devout and Christian you are. They've been on a slippery slope since the 1600's. That doesn't mean they can't draw the line at such a basic human horror, and in the case of abortion it's much clearer than contraception that it's murder, and should be illegal. That should be obvious to any reasonable human being. As for the bolded: In individual cases of devout pro-lifers I flat-out don't think contraception would lead to surgical abortion. Does it still contribute to a culture of death and send a conflicting message to their kids or outside society? Yes. But does it lead that particular devout, pro-life Christian protestant couple to surgical abortion? No. I highly doubt someone who's taken a strong stand on such a serious issue to back off it so easily. I don't think that's what you're saying, but I want to make the distinction here. As a note, I've had first-hand experience with non-Christian people who, when contraception failed, still choose life because abortion as murder was just too obvious, even though it was a tempting easy way out. I'm not saying it hasn't done good. I'm saying it will never abolish abortion in America because most of the people in the pro-life movement support and use something which inherently leads to abortion. It's like saying you're against one side of the coin but support the other. Fair enough. But I still think with the help of people who use contraception we can make it pretty much illegal and much, much rarer, even with widespread contraception use among pro-life protestants. We should work/we do work on contraception at the same time (and notice how most people didn't use contraception)- but again, their contraceptive use doesn't invalidate their anti-abortion views. I think humans are overall inclined towards not murdering babies (even though we've struggled with it since the dawn of time), so it's possible to pull the law and people's beliefs back from supporting baby killing. That is the goal of the March for Life, and it's one that I think will be influential to bringing an end to abortion. I in no way see how his video was "divisive". He pointed out a contradiction in many people in the pro-life movement. That's not divisive, that's stating facts. If the facts divide you, that's your problem, not his. You're basically upset at the messenger because he informed everyone that the house was on fire. It's not logical. I'm not sure if that's addressed to me because I agree with his fact (despite how he misworded his survey) and I didn't say the video was divisive, but in case it is, I'll quote myself again, emphasis on the bolded and with a few notes added: I don't know about the rest of his videos and I'm not trying to dis Michael Voris in general (nor am I upset with him based off of one video), I just want to address this video in particular. The rest of his videos may be amazing (I don't know if they are or aren't, I just want to talk about this video in particular) and he does have a point about needing to be against contraception, (or better put: a point about contraception leading to abortion and being a point of contradiction) but this video and March was handled poorly. (And yes, he did miss the point of the March- making abortion illegal, not contraception. Still, I wouldn't say the video is divisive, just not as effective as it could have been and it misses a few points. So poorly done.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts