Homosexual Catholic Irish Priest,

[Nihil Obstat]

I tend to think that this sort of thing would be used to help explain or illustrate a point, not be part of the homily at the expense of those other things. Both/and not either/or.

I would not complain using personal stories to illustrate a point. It is not my favourite, but I try not to be a grass mud horse about it.

I do think that 'coming out' during a homily totally crosses the line. No question in my mind. Even if our hypothetical priest remains celibate and continent. I would still find that a pastorally inappropriate addition to the homily.

[franciscanheart]

I would not complain using personal stories to illustrate a point. It is not my favourite, but I try not to be a grass mud horse about it.
I do think that 'coming out' during a homily totally crosses the line. No question in my mind. Even if our hypothetical priest remains celibate and continent. I would still find that a pastorally inappropriate addition to the homily.

Why?

[Amppax]

I would not complain using personal stories to illustrate a point. It is not my favourite, but I try not to be a grass mud horse about it.
I do think that 'coming out' during a homily totally crosses the line. No question in my mind. Even if our hypothetical priest remains celibate and continent. I would still find that a pastorally inappropriate addition to the homily.

Cool. As I figured, we're mostly in agreement.

[Nihil Obstat]

Why?

I already explained above.

[veritasluxmea]

I've seen this making the rounds. I'm pretty sure he's a real priest. He'll probably get a slap on the wrist, shuffled to a new parish, if that. Of course LGBTQ "marriage" supporters are happy about it, and people who don't support gay marriage aren't, and a bunch of people will be all "I support gay people but not gay marriage so *technically* what he's saying isn't bad." What's new?

 

I bet this turns into a never-ending gay debate thread. 

I just want to clarify that I wasn't saying he would be shuffled or disciplined for being gay, but for promoting gay marriage. I'm not sure if that was clear here, but now it is. 

Edited January 19, 2015 by veritasluxmea

[Amppax]

Why?

Well for one thing it distracts from the Mass. I imagine it would be a bomb shell for the congregation. Personally, I think a pastor's letter (at my parish it's part of the bulletin) would be a much more appropriate way to convey the message.

I know, I'm not Nihil, but hey! This is phatmass.

[franciscanheart]

Why?

I mean, why would that particular issue be inappropriate as an anecdote where other issues may not be? If you've already stated your reasoning, would you do me a solid and just quote yourself? I must have missed it if I'm asking again.
 

Well for one thing it distracts from the Mass. I imagine it would be a bomb shell for the congregation. Personally, I think a pastor's letter (at my parish it's part of the bulletin) would be a much more appropriate way to convey the message.

I know, I'm not Nihil, but hey! This is phatmass.

Ha. I don't mind you answering for yourself. I can see where in this day and time, it would be considered a bombshell. But I don't see why it should distract from the Mass any more than anecdotes about the family.

[Nihil Obstat]

Having a family and children is not evidence of an intrinsically disordered inclination. :idontknow: Not sure if I want that to be a P.S. to my post above, or a separate point.

 

Edit: I am not liking this feeling of impending doom, like using that term is going to call down a flamewar...

Edited January 19, 2015 by Nihil Obstat

[franciscanheart]

Having a family and children is not evidence of an intrinsically disordered inclination. :idontknow: Not sure if I want that to be a P.S. to my post above, or a separate point.
 
Edit: I am not liking this feeling of impending doom, like using that term is going to call down a flamewar...

I guess my point is this: I don't understand what sharing a struggle takes away from anything -- no matter than struggle. Especially when that struggle is so widely shared, but shamed and misunderstood. I don't think the whole homily needs to be about the priest and his sexuality, but I don't see where sharing that fact needs to be outlawed, even in a homily -- given, of course, that it's relevant and helpful. I also think that our priests and deacons teach much not in what they say, but rather, how they say it. The manner in which a priest carries himself and the way in which he might address something like this, in my opinion, has the potential to do much good.

[CrossCuT]

If you start a new thread, I'd be happy to engage that dialogue. Don't want to derail here.

 

Good suggestion! I indeed made a new thread.

[Nihil Obstat]

I guess my point is this: I don't understand what sharing a struggle takes away from anything -- no matter than struggle. Especially when that struggle is so widely shared, but shamed and misunderstood. I don't think the whole homily needs to be about the priest and his sexuality, but I don't see where sharing that fact needs to be outlawed, even in a homily -- given, of course, that it's relevant and helpful. I also think that our priests and deacons teach much not in what they say, but rather, how they say it. The manner in which a priest carries himself and the way in which he might address something like this, in my opinion, has the potential to do much good.

Say a priest is preaching about the impossibility of homosexual marriage and the immorality of homosexual relations. Then he says "oh by the way, I am gay." Like it or not, now the focus is on him, and his sexuality. Not about Church teaching, doctrine, the importance of understanding those teachings. It does not add anything. It detracts, in fact.

He does not need to insert himself into the homily, because frankly he does not matter. Not in the context of the Mass, and with regards to his obligation to teach his parishioners. The Church is what matters.

I will continue to maintain that a personal sidenote like that, while not wrong to share, is not appropriate in a homily. A more personal and less formal setting is a far better context for that.

[CrossCuT]

I think in this day and age people need to stop being so scandalized by discovering a homosexual is amongst you. Its only terrible because we making it so.

 

God didnt smite him at the pulpit so I take that as reassurance. 

[franciscanheart]

Well for one thing it distracts from the Mass. I imagine it would be a bomb shell for the congregation. Personally, I think a pastor's letter (at my parish it's part of the bulletin) would be a much more appropriate way to convey the message.

I know, I'm not Nihil, but hey! This is phatmass.

I thought of another question for you: How long is such a letter, typically, and how often are they published?

[Nihil Obstat]

I think in this day and age people need to stop being so scandalized by discovering a homosexual is amongst you. Its only terrible because we making it so.

 

God didnt smite him at the pulpit so I take that as reassurance. 

I do not think we, Phatmassers, actually care that "OMG THAT PRIEST IS TEH GAYZ (ICKY!)". We care very much that he turned the Mass into an occasion of celebrating himself and - in this case - his sin. That and his support for positions which are incompatible with authentic Catholicism.

[franciscanheart]

Say a priest is preaching about the impossibility of homosexual marriage and the immorality of homosexual relations. Then he says "oh by the way, I am gay." Like it or not, now the focus is on him, and his sexuality. Not about Church teaching, doctrine, the importance of understanding those teachings. It does not add anything. It detracts, in fact.
He does not need to insert himself into the homily, because frankly he does not matter. Not in the context of the Mass, and with regards to his obligation to teach his parishioners. The Church is what matters.
I will continue to maintain that a personal sidenote like that, while not wrong to share, is not appropriate in a homily. A more personal and less formal setting is a far better context for that.

So if a deacon gets up and starts talking about marriage, and says, "Oh, by the way, I'm married," you would also take issue? I'm putting aside, of course, the way you imagine a priest would out himself. I imagine if my parish priest came out to us, it wouldn't be in the way you suggested, nor would it detract from his teaching. If anything, I think it would illustrate quite well how grace enters the picture and the manner in which we are to conduct our lives.