Byzantine Carmelite Nuns

[Pia Jesu]

The Carmelite nuns' website has recently updated "Current Events"--for 2015.  In the

section titled "Remembering 2014," they reiterate their intention to become Trappistines!

How very interesting and deserving of our prayers.

 

http://www.byzantinediscalcedcarmelites.com/page8.html

 

Deo gratias...I found my way back to Phatmass!

[RafaelCordero]

Pia, you are confused.  The photo at the bottom of the link you provided shows the Byzantine Carmelite with dom Mauro, Abbot General of the Cistercians (O. Cist.), not dom Eamon, Abbot General of the the Cistercians of the Strict Observance (O.C.S.O, vulgarly known as Trappists).  The OCist and OCSO  habits are basically the same (with the possible exception of different belts, depending on the congregation/house/local custom), so I can see why you were confused.  Therefore it seems to me that the nuns are preparing to join the Cistercians (like Valley of Our Lady), not the Trappistines (like Wrentham, Crozet, Redwoods, and Santa Rita.

 

 

[Pia Jesu]

To add to the confusion, Rafael, the Trappists at the Abbey of Gethsemani describe themselves

(on their website) as "a monastery of Cistercian monks."  Perhaps a VS'er can explain this a bit

more.  Last year, the nuns recounted visits by various Trappists...so, the unfolding journey of

the Carmelites is still to be seen.  May the Holy Spirit continue to guide them.

[Luigi]

To add to the confusion, Rafael, the Trappists at the Abbey of Gethsemani describe themselves

(on their website) as "a monastery of Cistercian monks."  Perhaps a VS'er can explain this a bit

more.  Last year, the nuns recounted visits by various Trappists...so, the unfolding journey of

the Carmelites is still to be seen.  May the Holy Spirit continue to guide them.

 

In the beginning,  were the Benedictines (OSB, Order of St. Benedict), founded in 529. 

 

The Benedictines fell into laxity, and three monks at the Benedictine monastery in Citeau, France - Robert of Molesme, Alberic, and Stephen Harding - spearheaded a reform movement beginning in 1098. "Cistercian" comes from the Latin word for "Citeau." 

 

The Cistercians eventually fell into laxity, so there was another reform movement, led by a monk at the Cistercian monastery in LaTrappe, in the Normandy area of France - that reformer was the Abbot de Rance. His movement began in 1664. They're called "Trappists" after the monastery where that reform movement started. The "reformed" Cistercian houses were still part of the Cistercian order until they separated and formed their own order in 1892, with the approval of the Pope. 

 

So the Trappists are a variety of Cistercians, who are a variety of Benedictines. All three orders have monasteries of monks and monasteries of nuns. All three orders follow the Rule of St. Benedict, but they live the rule out in different ways. 

 

Needless to say, neither the Benedictines nor the Cistercians - as orders, in general - are currently "lax." You might say they re-formed themselves after the reform movements. 

 

 

Hope this helps. 

[Orans]

To add to the confusion, Rafael, the Trappists at the Abbey of Gethsemani describe themselves

(on their website) as "a monastery of Cistercian monks."  Perhaps a VS'er can explain this a bit

more.  Last year, the nuns recounted visits by various Trappists...so, the unfolding journey of

the Carmelites is still to be seen.  May the Holy Spirit continue to guide them.

 

Just to add affirm Luigi's explanation, the Trappists initials are O.C.S.O. which refers to the Latin for "Cistercian Order of the Strict Observance".

 

So they are truly " a monastery of Cistercian monks" -of the variety "strict observance" as distinct from the Cistercian Order (of common observance) with initials O. Cist.

[krissylou]

I go on retreat to an abbey of OSCO nuns (Wrentham).  They refer to themselves as "CIstercian" MUCH more often than Trappist/Trappistine.  They do market "Trappistine Quality Chocolates" but other than that they seem to call themselves Cistercians.

 

The way they explain it, at least now, all OSCO monasteries are fully contemplative.  Some O.Cist. monasteries are fully contemplative, some are more semi-contemplative.

 

If you're comparing a fully contemplative O.Cist. monastery to an OSCO monastery they definitely consider themselves part of the same family and the differences are no greater than the differences you're always going to see among various houses of the same order.

 

At least that is my understanding.

[Pia Jesu]

Thanks for the excellent (and much appreciated) explanations!

[RafaelCordero]

The way they explain it, at least now, all OSCO monasteries are fully contemplative.

 

Incorrect.  Roscrea (OCSO) runs a secondary school.  There may be other Trappists with external apostolates, I really don't know.  That's the one the I am familiar with.  Even Gethsemani ran a college from 1851 to 1912 which was closed under scandal.

 

By the way, krissylou, the abbreviation is OCSO (Ordo Cisterciensis Strictioris Observantiae) and not OSCO.  For those of you who know a bit of Latin, notice that that the adjective is in the comparative form, so "strictly" speaking, the Trappists are not Cistercians of the Strict Observance, they are Cistercians of the STRICTER observance.  Whether they are strictly speaking strict or merely stricter than their common observance confrères is far above my paygrade, however!

[krissylou]

You're totally right about my fingers switching up the letters.  Oh Catholic alphabet soup!

 

I did not know that about the secondary school!  Interesting!

 

I can tell you that at least the Wrentham abbey calls itself "Cistercian" FAR more than Trappist/Trappistine and when they are talking about the history of the order, the Cistercian reform is a BIG BIG DEAL while the Trappist reform is a footnote.  Maybe other abbeys have different spins but that's the way they talk.

 

It should also be noted that a lot of the reasons for various reforms have disappeared over time.  Just about nobody looking for a life of comfort and power these days is going to enter a Benedictine monastery to do it.  Really just about nobody.  A thousand years ago it was a very different story.  And a lot of the Cistercian reform was about use of land.  Benedictine abbeys generally operated under the manorial system with the abbot as lord of the manor.  They had serfs.  Cistercians didn't think that monks should have serfs, instead they had lay brothers working the land.  (Turns out that system worked really well too so they got rich too!)

 

No OSB monastery has serfs and hasn't for a very very long time.  That is no longer something any discerner needs to worry about.

[Pia Jesu]

Back to the Carmelites...I just found the thread (on VS) from last year that references

their desire to become Trappestines in a 2012 newsletter! 

 

http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/topic/121149-discalced-carmelite-nun-communities/page-23

 

Is there an easier way to insert an archived link like this? :think:

[Pia Jesu]

Oops...krissylou and I are having the same problem.  Make that "Trappistines"!!!

[Egeria]

Incorrect.  Roscrea (OCSO) runs a secondary school.  There may be other Trappists with external apostolates, I really don't know.  

 

Roscrea is an exception in that regard and is regarded as such within the Order.

 

It's worth noting that the terminology varies depending on the country, although in general the OCSO identifies more with the Cistercian identity than the Trappist one. (De Rance was regarded with some suspicion a few decades back, although he is more appreciated now). Sometimes the Trappist identity is more used for their products (think beer!).

 

Also, and this is a generalisation, historically the Common observance have been more present in German-speaking regions and the Strict observance more present in French-speaking regions. That may also partly explain the difference in external apostolate as even among Benedictines the Germans are more inclined to be "missionary" while the French are more inclined to be "contemplative."

[RafaelCordero]

Also remember from linguistics a somewhat related concept:  the difference between an exonym (how outsiders refer to a group) versus an endonym (how the group refers to itself).  

[Luigi]

Also remember from linguistics a somewhat related concept:  the difference between an exonym (how outsiders refer to a group) versus an endonym (how the group refers to itself).  

 

TWO NEW -TO-ME WORDS!!!! And very useful words, at that!

 

Thank you very much!!!!  

Edited January 14, 2015 by Luigi

[RafaelCordero]

Well yes, for example, look at Marie-Marguerite d'Youville's Sisters of Charity of Montreal, who were termed by some "les grise" which in French might mean "the grey (women)" or "the drunks"--now *that*  sobriquet clearly began its life as an exonym!  Later on did they adopt it as an endonym?  Perhaps so.