Guest Posted January 12, 2015 Share Posted January 12, 2015 I won't do that. If I ever left Catholicism it would be for a non denominational church held at a sports stadium or a supermarket. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Era Might Posted January 12, 2015 Share Posted January 12, 2015 (edited) The average Muslim in the world knows about as much about Charlie Hebdo as the average American knows about the CIA. Edited January 12, 2015 by Era Might Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 12, 2015 Share Posted January 12, 2015 How about this. I love non radical Muslims but hate islam and the koran. Is that an acceptable postion? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Era Might Posted January 12, 2015 Share Posted January 12, 2015 (edited) How about this. I love non radical Muslims but hate islam and the koran. Is that an acceptable postion? Well, I'm not the person to look to for what is acceptable and non-acceptable lol. But what do you hate about them? Edited January 12, 2015 by Era Might Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amppax Posted January 12, 2015 Share Posted January 12, 2015 Keep in mind that that part of Vatican II which Lil Red quotes is not infallible. Councils are not inherently infallible; the sections are only as infallible as the dogmas they are referring to, and since this is not referring to a dogma, it is therefore not infallible. Secondly, the Pope and Councils only have the power to infallibly declare truths about God and the Catholic faith, not about other faiths. There are many non-rad trad, faithful Catholic clergy and laymen who take issue with this part of the Council just as much as you and I do, and taking issue with it does not put into question your loyalty to Church doctrine, because it is not a Church doctrine, so we are free to question it and even disagree with it if our consciences say so. All of that is obviously not referring to something which is dogmatically defined, which in those cases, even if we can't understand it or take issue with it, we must with humility obey the Church, because it is God speaking through the Church, not just the opinion of the Pope or Bishops. Except that position misunderstands the obedience of faith. We're not only called to hold infallibly defined teachings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 12, 2015 Share Posted January 12, 2015 The koran and islam? About everything. What is good about a book and ideology that says to murder whoever won't convert and to murder anyone who wants to leave. Sounds like pure evil to me. Literally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winchester Posted January 12, 2015 Share Posted January 12, 2015 I hope for everyone's sake that imperfect worship of the God of Abraham doesn't mean one is failing entirely to worship the God of Abraham. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Era Might Posted January 12, 2015 Share Posted January 12, 2015 The koran and islam? About everything. What is good about a book and ideology that says to murder whoever won't convert and to murder anyone who wants to leave. Sounds like pure evil to me. Literally. I'm reading the book of Exodus right now. Sounds like the God Christians worship. Idolaters were killed in Israel, and God led the Hebrews to the promised land promising to exterminate their enemies. That's not all there is to Judaism, but it's part of the narrative. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 12, 2015 Share Posted January 12, 2015 (edited) I hope for everyone's sake that imperfect worship of the God of Abraham doesn't mean one is failing entirely to worship the God of Abraham. That's not my problem. All my aa friends I sat with everyday believe in God and don't step foot in a church. I don't question their relationship with God. They also don't have the edition of the big book that says to murder whoever won't covert and take over the world. If they did I would have the same objections with their "religion". Edited January 12, 2015 by Guest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhuturePriest Posted January 12, 2015 Share Posted January 12, 2015 Except that position misunderstands the obedience of faith. We're not only called to hold infallibly defined teachings. The Church doesn't call us to hold that teaching, however. If you look, it says Muslims profess to worship the same God of Abraham, not that they do. It's clear if you actually read the Qur'an and Islamic history that they most certainly do not worship the same God as us. However, I still hold that the wording should be edited. These aren't the opinions of an 18 year old on the internet, they are the opinions of people like Bishop Schneider, who gives very thoughtful reasons as to why it should be edited and revised. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 12, 2015 Share Posted January 12, 2015 (edited) I'm reading the book of Exodus right now. Sounds like the God Christians worship. Idolaters were killed in Israel, and God led the Hebrews to the promised land promising to exterminate their enemies. That's not all there is to Judaism, but it's part of the narrative. If Jesus wouldn't have came and cleared things up I would have nothing to do with it. I'm well aware of the Old Testament issues.It's crippled my faith a few times. Thank God for Jesus and Him setting things straight. Edited January 12, 2015 by Guest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 12, 2015 Share Posted January 12, 2015 (edited) I'm reading the book of Exodus right now. Sounds like the God Christians worship. Idolaters were killed in Israel, and God led the Hebrews to the promised land promising to exterminate their enemies. That's not all there is to Judaism, but it's part of the narrative. Who knows maybe Islam is TRUE! That would be crazy. Edited January 12, 2015 by Guest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Era Might Posted January 12, 2015 Share Posted January 12, 2015 If Jesus wouldn't have came and cleared things up I would have nothing to do with it. I'm well aware of the Old Testament issues.It's crippled my faith a few times. Thank God for Jesus and Him setting things straight. But Jesus wasn't here to build a "Jesus society." As soon as Christians set about to build a Christian society, they went to war, killed heretics, etc. That's how human society was. Christians simply had the advantage of inheriting the Roman empire, so a lot of their killing and conquest was done for them, at least initially. Later they started killing each other, when they weren't uniting to kill the infidel. Muslims set out from the Arabian peninsula and had to create their own empire, as the Greeks and Romans had done before them, and the Christians would do after them. My point is just that, yes, religion has always been a bloody affair because it wasn't a private thing, like it is today, it was connected with human society. The average Christian peasant was just along for the ride, they weren't out there making conquest, burning heretics, etc. (although they could be very violent, e.g., killing Jews). It's the same with Muslims and Islam. Muslims wake up every day, feed their kids, pray, give alms...all the same things Christians do. There is more to religion than just the killing and converting, things that don't really occupy the daily lives of ordinary Jews, Christians, or Muslims. Those are things that priests and kings worry about, because they have nothing better to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 12, 2015 Share Posted January 12, 2015 (edited) What I was saying is Jesus was peaceful. He saved the woman caught in adultery. He said to turn the other cheek. That kinda stuff. He didn't come advocating the violence of the Old Testament. Edited January 12, 2015 by Guest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not A Real Name Posted January 12, 2015 Share Posted January 12, 2015 Josh, also be careful to not be a Catholic who dismisses clear church teaching because you don't think it's infallible. That happened before. It's called Protestantism. While a Catholic must believe and adhere to infallible doctrines of the Faith, a Catholic is not obligated to believe things which are not infallible. To determine whether or not Phuture is doing some wrong we would need to find out whether or not what was listed is considered infallible doctrine or if it just a respected onion of the Church regarding Islam. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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