Why Does Catholicism Teach We Worship The Same God As Islam?

[Guest]

So according to Catholicism Muslims are closer to God then Mormons?

[Guest]

I don't worship the same God as Muslims. If Catholicism keeps insisting I do then a change in some capacity will have to be made on my end.

[Maggyie]

Why? I mean surely you realize people used to kill thousands in the name of Christianity? Is your argument basically, some of them are nasty so no way do they worship the same God as me?

Or do you have a theological argument?

You should turn off the cable news and get to know some Muslims in your community.

Mormons also worship the God of Abraham. They don't worship him as the Trinity, but neither do Jews or Muslims.

[Guest]

My theological argument is what the koran teaches and all the murders happening everyday . I have no problem with peaceful Muslims although I don't worship their god. I worship a God of love not hate.

Edited January 12, 2015 by Guest

[Maggyie]

My theological argument is the koran and all the murders.I have no problem with peaceful Muslims although I don't worship their god. I worship a God of love not hate.

Have you ever read the Koran? I mean it's definitely got some unpleasant parts but so does the Old Testament.

how would you feel if this was Europe in the middle of the Thirty Years War and 5 million people are being slaughtered by Protestants and Catholics fighting? Keep in mind total populations were much lower at that time and this meant maybe 25% of the civilian population in some places was completely wiped out.

It's identical to people judging Catholicism based on abusive priests and no matter how much you insist they aren't all like that, you can't break through to some people because it was on the evening news every day. I think we should be judged by our best example and not by our worst. keep in mind that in the USA and in Europe MOST murders are committed by Christians or unaffiliated. Does that mean Christianity is awful? Killing is killing. Edited January 12, 2015 by Maggie

[BarbTherese]

Is it because Islam worships the God of Abraham, as we do?  I think their understanding of what The God of Abraham is all about is in conflict with our understanding however.  And finite human understanding of an Infinite God has to be most always somewhere off the actual mark.  Finiteness just cannot grasp the Infinite only possibly remotely approach it.  Of course, in our understanding "He who sees Me, sees The Father" and Islam does not accept Jesus as God............rather only as a human prophet I think.

[Guest]

Religion is awful and in 2015 Islam still holds the top spot with ease. I have my personal relationship and faith in Jesus. Honestly that's all I need. I'm over religion. Thankfully Catholics aren't still burning people at the stake. If they were I would not call myself Catholic. And I find nothing good about a koran that instructs to murder those who won't convert or those who leave the faith. That's not the God I love.

Edited January 12, 2015 by Guest

[Luigi]

God is God is God. 

 

How people respond to God varies - between religions, within religions over time, and in other ways.

 

But God remains the same.

 

The Jews recognize God as God. Catholics recognize that same deity as God. The Muslims recognize that same deity as God. All Christians recognize that same deity as God. THAT'S why the Church teaches that we worship the same God as the Muslims. 

 

You can love, like, dislike, or hate how some Muslims express their understanding of God, or their worship of God, or how they enact their beliefs in that deity we all call God.

 

But we really, truly do worship the same God.  

[superblue]

I'm beginning to have more and more of a problem with this.

 

 

 Personally I never knew for a very long time Islam worshiped the same God as Christians and Jews do,

 

Islam though has been pilfered since the mid to late 60s when Malcom X and Ali started to "embrace"  Islam not in a religious sense but in a racist sense ,  I haven't done any research but I doubt or would be surprised if we saw much violence related to Islam before 1950 ,  then we breach into the new pilfering of Islam during Bill Clintons administration with the first bombing of the WTC, the media barely had any understanding of what was going and I don't know many who actually did.

 

So we look at that and ask, how can people in this religion possibly be worshiping the same God as we do ? 

 

It is very hard even with the Catholic Catechism to still wrap our heads around this, because even if you take all the recent from 60s - now ,, wipe all that out, it looks like a peaceful religion,

 

until we look at another part of Islam which is Sharia Law,  which is littered with violent and unjust inhumane penalties for being found guilty of these religious laws.

 

 

There are a lot of problems with Islam, and I think even though the Catechism has a defined explanation as to the why, I would argue that explanation is there to maintain as much peace as possible between Catholics and Islam.    Could anyone imagine what would happen if the Church in some shape or form at this point in time declared Islam a wrong/false/or violent religion ... ?

 

Verses Mormonism, non violent, but their version of Christ is a bit off , they have secret temples which only selected few can enter, etc.... So just because Mormons have their own interpretation of Christ and God, does that actually mean they are worshiping the same God and Christ as Catholics ?

 

Same thing with Islam, they may have an idea on who God is, but their laws, and actions, are contrary to what a peaceful person expects of God and His laws.

 

At some point someone has to call the kettle black, and stop playing a victim game that only a select few are ruining Islam, especially where there are Islam run states with in states, where if you are caught wearing the wrong clothing the self appointed police put a hurt on those people quick.

 

But I seriously doubt the Church will ever break ties with Islam, it would put the Papacy in  physical danger and cause more chaos than do any good.

[Not A Real Name]

I personally never viewed Islam as believing in the same God as Christians.  The Christian God is Three Divine Persons in One God.  The Muslims, and the those who still practice Judaism, reject Christ who is the Second Person in the Holy Trinity, therefore they reject the One God according to Christianity.  I always viewed the rejection of the Person of Christ as being a rejection of God; " but whoever rejects me rejects him [The Father] who sent me"--Luke 10:16

  

 

 

[BarbTherese]

I personally never viewed Islam as believing in the same God as Christians.  The Christian God is Three Divine Persons in One God.  The Muslims, and the those who still practice Judaism, reject Christ who is the Second Person in the Holy Trinity, therefore they reject the One God according to Christianity.  I always viewed the rejection of the Person of Christ as being a rejection of God; " but whoever rejects me rejects him [The Father] who sent me"--Luke 10:16

  

 

I think that possibly "whoever rejects Me, rejects Him who sent me" does presuppose culpable rejection of Jesus and therefore of The Father  - and that does step into an area where we just cannot judge infallibly.

To my way of thinking, Jews, Islam and Christianity do worship the same God, the "I Am Who Am"- but what we believe about that God is different either dramatically different or shades of difference.  Certainly what a person believes about God is never God Himself, nor can what a person believes about God negate God Himself- who is Infinite and simply is.  Some Christians, even Catholics, do have strange ideas about God - and it is their finite reasoning that is at fault somewhere.  While the God in whom they do believe remains the "I Am Who Am' as revealed in Jesus.

Edited January 12, 2015 by BarbaraTherese

[beatitude]

Personally, I think those words were put in for the sake of trying to butter Muslims up so they would like us more. It was a theological concept driven by a political aim.

 

Or, the Council Fathers simply knew nothing of Islam, which is also possible.

 

Or maybe the Council Fathers were a bit more clued in to the Algerian War and other anti-colonial independence struggles that overshadowed Vatican 2 and the centuries of unspeakable vicious cruelty that had preceded them (often with Church complicity), and they felt the time was right to point to shared faith in the God of Abraham as a basis for reconciliation and justice?

 

The severe political repression and violence in North Africa is one of France's most painful historical legacies. In 1961 the police massacred Algerian Muslim freedom demonstrators in the streets of Paris; their bodies were dumped in the Seine. There has never been any prosecution for that massacre; the killers were given amnesty. The French authorities have been reluctant to face their history in this regard - no country is willing to shake hands with the skeletons in its closet. But even while that cold-blooded murder may be totally unknown to you, you can bet it's not unknown to French Muslims, who are overwhelmingly of North African origin. Nor is the torture that was being practised wholesale at the behest of the state, for centuries, to the point where some uncomfortable spectators started to remember the Nazi era and ask if there was a French Gestapo in Algeria - the violence against French Muslims and Muslims under French rule brought about the first public discussion of Holocaust memory and Vichy collaboration in France. These aren't just memories for the people who lived through it and never got justice. You can bet those people also remember the complicity of Christian clerics. The Council Fathers will have been painfully aware of all these things even if you aren't, and they turned to faith in God as a way to begin reparation and healing.

 

The Hebdo killers were of Algerian origin. The roots of sectarian violence in France go a lot deeper than religion, even though religion plays a part. It's the same in many other places. So, do the French Catholics who supported the 1961 butchery in the streets of Paris and evoked religious justifications for colonialism not worship the God of Abraham either? Or is it only murders committed by Muslims in the Parisian streets that provoke that question? In my experience, one of the main problems here is that many American Christians seem to be very aware of any violence committed by Muslims but completely ignorant of any violence suffered by them, so they assume that killings just occur because some book tells Muslims to commit murder. It's not like that.

 

Josh, I second Maggie's suggestion to actually talk to Muslims in your community. You seem to get all your info about them from the news. Trust me, children in Yemen who have lost all their family to drone strikes would not get a very positive picture of American Christians if all they relied on was the news, which shows yet more strikes and bombings. There is no substitute for actually meeting people face to face to understand who they are and how they pray.

Edited January 12, 2015 by beatitude

[Guest]

I don't doubt many Muslims are cool. My problem are the people who murder in the religions name for as long as I can remember. I'm 33. And this is what their religion tells them to do. The koran says to do this. I guess I can see the Church saying Islam is cool to keep peace. Who am I to object that. But it seems as if a lot of Catholics and people in general think Islam is a good thing and it should be respected and called "beautiful". What is good and beautiful about it ? It instructs to murder anyone who won't convert or wants to leave. Thats not even getting into how oppressive it is to women,gays ect ect. What rational person thinks that their can be a positive in this? Why do I have to agree that their God who tells them to do this is the same God I worship? Again it seems some people are just in love with the idea of religion and laws and a buncha rules. And attacks against Islam = attacks against Catholicism. Maybe that's not the case but it seems like it.

Edited January 12, 2015 by Guest

[Guest]

I think this picture sums it up perfectly. Remember Satan is the god of this world. And when the antichrist comes he will claim to be Christ. And Islam believes Christ will return not as God of course. I've heard it said a Pope or perhaps antipope will be the false prophet and tell the world to worship the antichrist.

[dUSt]

Keep in mind that that part of Vatican II which Lil Red quotes is not infallible. Councils are not inherently infallible; the sections are only as infallible as the dogmas they are referring to, and since this is not referring to a dogma, it is therefore not infallible. Secondly, the Pope and Councils only have the power to infallibly declare truths about God and the Catholic faith, not about other faiths. There are many non-rad trad, faithful Catholic clergy and laymen who take issue with this part of the Council just as much as you and I do, and taking issue with it does not put into question your loyalty to Church doctrine, because it is not a Church doctrine, so we are free to question it and even disagree with it if our consciences say so.

 

All of that is obviously not referring to something which is dogmatically defined, which in those cases, even if we can't understand it or take issue with it, we must with humility obey the Church, because it is God speaking through the Church, not just the opinion of the Pope or Bishops.

 

Josh, also be careful to not be a Catholic who dismisses clear church teaching because you don't think it's infallible. That happened before. It's called Protestantism.