BarbTherese Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 (edited) If only we could remember the love part more often! Good stuff. Very well said indeed for God IS Love and how can we claim to be in Grace, to be in God in Jesus, if we are not loving people?..........something is amiss, not falling into place, logical place. Edited January 13, 2015 by BarbaraTherese Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ST BERNARD Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 I think probably the sultan already realised the bloodthirsty and barbaric intentions of the Catholic crusaders when Francis travelled to him. The crusades were well underway then and the crusades were a dreadful event in our history - extremely bloodthirsty and cruel on our part for one. Perhaps I misinterpreted the post you quoted but I thought the statement meant that St Francis didn't tell the sultan that his (the Sultan's) religion was bloodthirsty and barbaric, as we so often say of Islam. To me, it makes sense that you don't convert someone by denigrating their beliefs straight off, especially as not all Muslims ARE bloodthirsty and barbaric any more than all Catholic are approving of the Crusades or the Inquisition (if any still are, I don't know). St Francis let his love speak for him, rather than simply criticizing the other person. Anyway, that was just my interpretation of what was said. What you posted made good sense too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BarbTherese Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 St Francis of Assisi put it beautifully with great simplicity: "Always preach The Gospel, with words if necessary". Think about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BarbTherese Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 Perhaps I misinterpreted the post you quoted but I thought the statement meant that St Francis didn't tell the sultan that his (the Sultan's) religion was bloodthirsty and barbaric, as we so often say of Islam. To me, it makes sense that you don't convert someone by denigrating their beliefs straight off, especially as not all Muslims ARE bloodthirsty and barbaric any more than all Catholic are approving of the Crusades or the Inquisition (if any still are, I don't know). St Francis let his love speak for him, rather than simply criticizing the other person. Anyway, that was just my interpretation of what was said. What you posted made good sense too. Another good post! You are quite correct -- I misread what Lillabettt had to state and my bad! Good to have you one of the phamily, St Bernard, and welcome. I haven't seen you around before if you have posted. Do stay onboard! :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ST BERNARD Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 Another good post! You are quite correct -- I misread what Lillabettt had to state and my bad! Good to have you one of the phamily, St Bernard, and welcome. I haven't seen you around before if you have posted. Do stay onboard! :) I'm just getting my feet wet today. I have to work the next two days so probably won't be online again until later in the week after this. Thanks for the welcome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BarbTherese Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 (edited) I'm just getting my feet wet today. I have to work the next two days so probably won't be online again until later in the week after this. Thanks for the welcome. Believe me, you are very welcome indeed, SB :bananarap: Had a quick look at your profile and I just fell over Phatmass too and quite a few years ago now. Must admit that at the time I wondered how anything Catholic could come out of such a weird title! ............shades of...............Nazareth! Will be looking forward to your posts from now on whenever you are able to post. Regards.......Barb Incidentally, the water can get hot around the forums now and then, but most of the time its just fine! Edited January 13, 2015 by BarbaraTherese Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
superblue Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 It is a good question. How do we convert Muslims to Catholicism? How do we convert anyone to Catholicism, really? With Protestants at least we have some solid starting points. With a bit of brief reflection, I do not think it is us here in the west that can really do anything substantial in converting Muslims. Not in a direct way and on a large scale. I think that their Christian neighbours, being the ones who better understand them and can provide a material witness to Truth and Charity, will be the ones who can make better inroads. That is why it is so important for us to support the Catholic Church in Muslim regions, especially for instance the Chaldean Church, the Copts, The Assyrian Church of the East, and of course the Roman Catholics who have ended up in those areas. I am interested to find out if you or anyone else knows how the Catholic Church here in America or in Rome is supporting the Catholic Church in these Muslim regions and any ideas as to how we at a local level can as well in a physical or financial way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 I am interested to find out if you or anyone else knows how the Catholic Church here in America or in Rome is supporting the Catholic Church in these Muslim regions and any ideas as to how we at a local level can as well in a physical or financial way. Well it is always easy enough to send money. I wonder if any of those regions and Churches bring in young volunteers to help materially, or anything like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 (edited) I am new here so will tread warily, but you know, there are fanatics in every religion, not just Islam. The God of Abraham wasn't a very nice sounding guy until Jesus came along and started telling people that He was a God of love. Since Islam didn't follow Jesus' teachings, they missed out on the compassion and mercy aspect somewhere along the line. but then, the Crusades were a pretty bloody form of Christianity for awhile too, as was the Inquisition. Maybe we just have to separate the extremists from those who try to follow Mohammed in a more peaceful way. I do think they have the same God, but they interpret Him in different ways. So momhammad is a good dude? A prophet of God? allah's ideal man? Edited January 13, 2015 by Guest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhuturePriest Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 Perhaps I misinterpreted the post you quoted but I thought the statement meant that St Francis didn't tell the sultan that his (the Sultan's) religion was bloodthirsty and barbaric, as we so often say of Islam. To me, it makes sense that you don't convert someone by denigrating their beliefs straight off, especially as not all Muslims ARE bloodthirsty and barbaric any more than all Catholic are approving of the Crusades or the Inquisition (if any still are, I don't know). St Francis let his love speak for him, rather than simply criticizing the other person. Anyway, that was just my interpretation of what was said. What you posted made good sense too. I am most certainly favorable towards the Crusades and the Inquisition, as both were not the horrible genocide of humanity that modern historians claim they were. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ST BERNARD Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 (edited) I am most certainly favorable towards the Crusades and the Inquisition, as both were not the horrible genocide of humanity that modern historians claim they were. :shock: :lol4: (I certainly like all these little emoticons!) Edited January 13, 2015 by ST BERNARD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhuturePriest Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 :shock: :lol4: (I certainly like all these little emoticons!) I can't name many people here who aren't in favor of the Crusades and the Inquisition. Everything that happened in them? No. But for the most part, they were done for the right reasons and were at least originally justly executed, in relation to the Crusades, anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 (edited) Just sat down in the 10 20 no limit hold em game in L.A. Sitting next to my buddy Muhammad from Egypt...We just cracked a joke.. Edited January 13, 2015 by Guest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ST BERNARD Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BarbTherese Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 I am most certainly favorable towards the Crusades and the Inquisition, as both were not the horrible genocide of humanity that modern historians claim they were. I think both the Crusades and the Inquisition remain a blot on our history for a Church that proclaims a God of Love and Compassion and claims to be followers of Jesus, murdered/politically assassinated for His Message of Peace and Love, goodwill towards ALL men. It is quite true I think that both the Crusades and the Inquisition took place in a certain culture prevailing in their times. I don't think this is an excuse at all, it might be a reason but no excuse and I don't think as Catholics we should try to excuse the two terrible events, rather to own up to them and pray that such terrible crimes against humanity will never be repeated again and in the name of Jesus. That we have learned the lesson of history, one of which is that Catholicism is ideally very often counter cultural and swims very often against the tide of modern thought and culture and very often must do so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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