Frustrated And Disillusioned?

[Maggyie]

Hope I don't ruffle feathers here. But I'm just really depressed about the church/Catholics lately.

 

I looked up a friend on facebook who doesn't usually show up on my feed, and to my surprise he is teaching at a Holy Cross Catholic high school, I didn't know he was even Catholic when I knew him.

 

I read his posts and he has a lot on his family but interspersed is a lot of memes etc mocking fundamentalist Protestants putting creationism in schools, talking about Ferguson/cops, illegal immigration should be handled based on bible verses etc.

 

Here's the thing, those are all my opinions too! I am the stereotypical social justicey Catholic all anti-torture and lol creationists and pro universal healthcare blah blah you name it I claim it. But in my mind, his posts didn't spark agreement but anger.

 

We have so many people who are ideologues, with a thin layer of Jesus spread on top. We social justicey Catholics get to pretend that we are the ones "being real" because we allegedly focus on "the heart of the gospel" (bleeding hearts that is) and not on the peripheral stuff. But it's still just Jesus flavoring. And we are always so convinced we are totally right, too.

 

The people who talk about abortion/gay marriage are developmentally delayed hobgoblins obsessed with sex etc. WE are enlightened and never obsessed no matter how dedicated or involved we are in our pet causes. Our Christianity is better because it's about good works that happen to be acceptable to our cultural elites. (sarcasm)

 

Oh if you press some of these people they would dutifully recite Catholic teaching on these squirmy issues (like the Pope does) but probably their heart's not really in it. Like, sure I believe all this stuff, I have to because that's the way the church works, but let's not focus on it, it's so embarrassing and makes me look like a Neanderthal. Let's talk more about food drives. Don't get me started about the Pope, who I was initially excited about.

 

And yet the opposite side of the coin, traditionalists drives me absolutely up the wall. People who go after undocumented people, support the death penalty, are totally ignorant about racial issues etc all while wrapped in the cross. That article by Cardinal Burke that was posted, it's nothing in particular but just his whole manner of speaking makes me angrily close the tab on my iphone web browser (very forceful demonstration lol).

 

Meanwhile people who are focused on women stuff totally can't handle the main point that the Church has a big problem with men which frankly any secular study would confirm. Hey all the priests and most of the theologians are men so we can't have a man problem. The fact that the majority of men consider church something for women and children is meaningless because we are a clericalist organization. Social science shows the father's role in transmitting religion is way more important than the mother's but whatevs.

 

And why? because ideology. Everybody's political. Everybody's infected with it and brings it to bear on issues and then adds a dolop of Jesus afterward to make it legit. I guess I must be that way too but I'm so repulsed when I see it in others. That doesn't make me innocent just self-aware? I'm so turned off of the whole thing right now. Has it always been this way? I guess so? Am I the only one in the world with this issue?

 

Sorry so long. tldr: #ihaveasickness #nodoctorcancureit

[Not The Philosopher]

I think most of us will have at least one, "oh no who did I marry?" moment in our spiritual lives. I know I've had a couple.

[Ash Wednesday]

You have brought up a lot of really good points. 

 

Especially the part about having the "thin layer of Jesus spread on top" regardless of where we may lean in our politics or whatnot.

 

Recently over the break after about a year of deep prayer it's like I had a switch turn on, like God took a flashlight and showed me certain things in my life where I was seriously in the wrong and I had been completely ignorant about it. (Needless to say I still have a long ways to go.) And I think that pretty much goes for all of us. We spend so much time complaining about other people and looking down on them, Catholic or not, when really we should be taking the beams out of our own eyes.

 

The bottom line is that if we don't have authenticity or true charity, people just won't take whatever we have to say all that seriously and will just think we are full of manure. It's like that bumper sticker says, "Jesus loves you. Everyone else thinks you're a (you get the idea)"

 

I think it's probably been this way for as long as humanity has been around since the fall in the garden, and it's a part of the human condition. But a little awareness can go a long way.

 

 

[Not A Real Name]

O God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to know the difference. Living one day at a time, enjoying one moment at a time. Accepting hardships as the parthway to peace. Taking, as he did, the sinful world as it is, not as I would have it. Trusting that he will make all things right if I surrender to His will; that I may be reasonably happy in this life, and supremely happy with Him forever.

 

 

 

Lord, make me an instrument of Your peace. Where there is hatred, let me sow love; where there is injury, pardon; where there is doubt, faith; where there is despair, hope; where there is darkness, light; where there is sadness, joy.

 

O, Divine Master, grant that I may not so much seek to be consoled as to console; to be understood as to understand; to be loved as to love; For it is in giving that we receive; it is in pardoning that we are pardoned; it is in dying that we are born again to eternal life.

[Era Might]

That doesn't make me innocent just self-aware?

 

That's wisdom, self-awareness, self-knowledge. It's rare, we're constantly in search of it, constantly blind to it. All we can do is liberate ourselves and help others liberate themselves.

[Nihil Obstat]

I feel like I came to an understanding recently. I do not km now if it will help you, but it makes me feel better in what I have felt to be an extremely hostile society these days.
That is that ideology will not save me. Politics will not save me. Economics will not save me. Only the grace through the Church will save my soul.
You know how I feel about traditionalism. I am passionate about the Mass because the Mass will save me. Anyway in terms of the trad Mass we do not have to get into that.
But the social justice stuff, the immigration and the economics and the Healthcare... I want to focus on being a good Catholic on my own micro level, and I feel like the rest will follow.
In my opinion that makes me stronger on the truly important issues like abortion because in my mind it does not have a political ideological component. The less important stuff, again, I think it just falls into place.

I simply want to focus on the essentials and let the Church's grace sort out the rest in me.

[HopefulHeart]

I have also been reflecting on how politicized elements within the Church have become.  It is very disheartening.

When I confront these frustrating ideas, I find it comforting to go into my spiritual "inner room" (Matthew 6:6) and distance myself from outside influences for just a little while.  I don't need to be in physical solitude; I just try to find a place in my mind where I can be at peace with the Lord for a little while.  I try to focus on the basics of the Christian life, like prayer and Scripture reading, the things that will help me to build a personal relationship with Jesus.  This is simply my individual approach, but I hope it is in some way helpful for you!  :)

Edited January 10, 2015 by HopefulHeart

[Nihil Obstat]

Interestingly enough, as I am getting more and more explicit in insisting that economics will not save me, I am also changing directions just slightly to graduate with my major being economics. Lol.

[IgnatiusofLoyola]

Hope I don't ruffle feathers here. But I'm just really depressed about the church/Catholics lately.........

 

And why? because ideology. Everybody's political. Everybody's infected with it and brings it to bear on issues and then adds a dolop of Jesus afterward to make it legit. I guess I must be that way too but I'm so repulsed when I see it in others. That doesn't make me innocent just self-aware? I'm so turned off of the whole thing right now. Has it always been this way? I guess so? Am I the only one in the world with this issue?

 

Maggie, you're not the only one who feels frustrated and disillusioned. I haven't just felt this lately, I've felt it for a long time. And, in my case, I'm not just frustrated and disillusioned about the Catholic church and Catholics--I'm equally frustrated about Protestants, including the Anglicans.

 

I keep praying and searching for what is "true" (veritas), what is good, and what I think Christ would want. I've read books and I've met individuals (including here on Phatmass) who epitomize many of the things I would like to be.

 

I don't belong to any parish--Catholic, Protestant, or even Anglican. A good part of this is that due to illness, it would be very difficult for me to sit through a Mass. And, I would have to rely on someone else to drive me. It also doesn't help that I have a very hard time getting myself going in the morning, and most non-Catholic Masses are between 9:00-11:00--that is a hardship.

 

But, even though (conservatively) there are at least 10 Catholic parishes within 5 miles of me--and an equal number of Episcopal parishes--none offer the types of Masses that make me feel closest to Christ, that is, sung Masses, with a beautiful liturgy, except occasionally. There are no Anglican Use parishes in the Chicago area that I am aware of, and the closest Anglo-Catholic parish is 10+ miles away. But, I need more than a Mass--I need COMMUNITY--and that is going to be difficult if the parish is not fairly nearby. 

 

So, Phatmass is my "parish." I continue to come here, because of any social network site I belong to, I've met more caring, loving, understanding people here on Phatmass.

 

But, I get frustrated, too--sometimes about the political issue you brought up, and sometimes about other things I see on Phatmass. I think often posters on Phatmass forget that every single post they make is read by many people who will never log into Phatmass, and whom we know nothing about. Often, the number of visitors is 3 or 4 times the number of members--or more. People are human, but I think we all forget sometimes that every single post we make is a witness to potentially hundreds of others we will never meet.

 

One thing that's been happening that is unfortunately not new, is that there are some who find it entertaining to stir up other peoples emotions' and create drama. Yet, it's not unknown that a poster who finds it entertaining to stir up other people gets then turns around and gets very upset if other posters question THEIR views or their motives.

 

Stirring up other people's emotions for the fun of it is not bringing out the best in our fellow posters or (at least to me) being a the best possible witness for Catholicism (or Christianity in general ) to the hundreds of visitors Phatmass gets. 

 

As a non-Catholic, these kinds of discussions between Catholics are not a good Catholic witness for me. Every time I see them, I question the Catholic church and its members. They make me even more confused and make me question God about why he wants me to even consider becoming a Catholic. I have told God in good faith that if he tells me he wants me to become Catholic, I will. In the past, God has made it very clear at times that he wants me to do a specific thing. However, God has not yet told me (yet) that he wants me to become a Catholic.

 

I am also VERY frustrated about other personal things in my life. People who know me know what these things are. More than ever, I need Phatmass to be a good witness to me about how God works in people's lives and how he makes them better people. That helps me a lot.

 

Personally, I try to avoid unhelpful threads, but sometimes I make the mistake of reading them, and wonder why the Catholic versus Catholic arguments (and even baiting) are allowed.

 

Thanks for listening to me vent. For my part, I will do my best in the future to avoid threads that are likely to hurt my view of Catholicism and Catholics. Note: I don't expect people on Phatmass to always agree. Intelligent and thoughtful discussions are a big help to me and I have learned SO much in the almost 5 years I have been on Phatmass. I am still here because the good outweighs the bad, and I have no plans to go anywhere soon. (That said, I reserve the right to go "on sabbatical" for a time when Phatmass is hurting more than it is helping.)

[Luigi]

St. Paul has a line (Romans 12:2) about not being conformed to this world, but rather transforming the world.

 

And Jesus has a line (Matthew 7 and Luke 6) about the mote in your brother's eye and the beam in your own. 

 

 

Both apply to everybody, back in the time of Jesus & Paul, and just as much today. And both are easier said than done. 

 

 

 

That's why religious practice requires constant renewal, I guess. 

[Maggyie]

I should clarify I'm not upset about threads on phatmass or facebook really, it's just an accumulation of things. Like in our diocese and I'm sure everywhere, there are liberal parishes and conservative parishes. That really irritates me, like nails on the chalkboard.

And yet am I being unfair? Am I expecting groups of human beings to be sans ideology and apolitical when history shows the human experience almost never escapes the prison of ideology? Even with the best of intentions?

To me that is the ultimate attraction of religion, in that it promises to explode the categories and systems humans invent to enslave themselves. Instead of a system religion offers love as a way of organizing life.

We are just so infatuated with our systems and ideologies. Deep down I think many people feel only their ideology is pure and the things of God are only sacred to the extent they prop up the preferred system.

Like my friend who thinks the undocumented situation should be handled biblically, if you ask him if divorce should be handled biblically, suddenly the tune changes. (I haven't asked him, I'm just assuming which is wrong to do, but)

I agree that a lot of this can be cured by taking a step back and making the effort to renew my personal spiritual state. It's tough to do because I know the church (and me) with all of her/my hypocrisy will be waiting for me when I get back from retreat.

[Nihil Obstat]

How do other people's 'ideological faiths' affect you? Are there concrete effects, or is it more of a chronic spiritual malaise?

[Era Might]

To me that is the ultimate attraction of religion, in that it promises to explode the categories and systems humans invent to enslave themselves. Instead of a system religion offers love as a way of organizing life.

We are just so infatuated with our systems and ideologies. Deep down I think many people feel only their ideology is pure and the things of God are only sacred to the extent they prop up the preferred system.

 

Some thoughts from Dorothy Day. She's a good example of what you're talking about, because she lived radically that different "organization of life" around love, but she also found that the more she did, it did not make things easier, but harder, because she had to live that love in an imperfect world and church:

 

"I loved the Church for Christ made visible. Not for itself, because it was so often a scandal to me. Romano Guardini said the Church is the Cross on which Christ was crucified; one could not separate Christ from His Cross, and one must live in a state of permanent dissatisfaction with the Church."

[Theoketos]

The Lord opposes the proud even when we are right. 

[Amppax]

Gotta love Guardini.