Size Of Religious Communities

[katherineH]

Hello friends,

 

For those of you who are discerning or have discerned, how important was the size or "vibrancy" of the order in your decision? There are obviously those communities that are expanding significantly and gaining more visibility (Michigan and Nashville Dominicans, Sisters of Life, etc.) and those are stagnant, or in decline.  How do you feel or would you feel about joining an order that was significantly in decline and had sustainability issues? A friend told me it was absolutely a deal breaker for her as she was visiting communities.  She wanted to have sisters her own age.  I realize this isn't a black or white issue, and that God calls whomever wherever and that He will provide.  What have your experiences been with this? Were you ever skeptical towards joining a community that seems to be barely hanging on, or only had one new postulant every other year?

[Strictlyinkblot]

Well, I know of several cloistered communities that appeared to be dying out, and then one person would enter, then another and another until it was full. So, you really do never know. For me, I did want sisters my age but I was prepared to enter where I was called. Then, funnily enough, I've been accepted for a very vibrant community.

[veritasluxmea]

As for the vibrancy and age of the order, it depends on your personality, I'd think. Are you the kind of person God is calling to be a "pioneer" for a new order? Or are you a better fit with the kind of order that has a strong tradition and heritage that will factor into how you live life as a religious? It goes beyond extroversion and introversion to who you are and how God is calling you to live your religious consecration. 

 

Of course, everyone should be open to where God is calling them. If you have a deal-breaker preference I'd examine carefully why, and where it would lead you, and make sure it's really an OK thing to be attached to before making any decisions where it's a factor. 

[TIWW]

In some ways, I think it depends on  if the community is active or more contemplative/cloistered. I think there are many formerly very vibrant active communities which are now dying, because they did not  continue to follow their original charism, ie teaching, nursing, missionary work etc. Hard as I try, I can not see a way for this to change for these orders. For many of the contemplative, cloistered groups, they may dwindle down in numbers, but at some point they form together with other Carmelite, Poor Clare etc. community. Good question.

[vee]

Ill use the dsmme as an example for this.  While they have tremendous growth and their overall numbers are ever expanding, when they are finally stationed to teach at a school the numbers are much smaller.  Im talking four or five Sisters at one location. It made me think of a phrase associated with the marines "a few good men."  When I had a chance to see what those few Sisters at one school were able to accomplish its amazing what God can do with a few good Sisters and I realized a group doesnt have to be huge.  Quality over quantity if you will.

[nikita92]

To me, it seems that the young vibrant thriving communities seem to be the ones that are active teaching/education ones...or like Sisters of Life who's exposure is basically dealing with the younger generation. Therefor, I can see young discerners being attracted, to these if one is placing AGE as a priority.

I am middle age. Therefor, I tend to shy away from communities that consist mostly of young (up to mid 30's) women. (I'm not interested in teaching/education etc communities anyways.)

On the other hand, if there was a community that had just a small handful of sisters who were mostly in their 70's and 80's etc I might feel alittle ambivalent.
To be honest.. I did discern with a community that seemed to be barely hanging on.. (Very few sisters here in the states) and that was somewhat of a concern to me.
It would be ideal to discern with a community that has a nice balance of ages.
Keeping a open mind and listen to God is key of course!!

[TheresaThoma]

I guess for me the big concern is they why behind there number of new vocations or lack there of. Number of new vocations isn't the only indicator of the health for the community. 

[Swami Mommy]

I can only speak for myself, and I'm not actively discerning entrance into a religious community at this time, but if I were I would choose a community about the size of Regina Laudis or larger. I like the idea of having a larger group of people to live with who share my interest in spirituality, and yet which offers the opportunity to maintain a certain degree of impersonality if I need space to be alone. 'Aloneness in our togetherness' resonates with me at this stage of my life.

[Dominican Nuns Menlo Park]

Ill use the dsmme as an example for this.  While they have tremendous growth and their overall numbers are ever expanding, when they are finally stationed to teach at a school the numbers are much smaller.  Im talking four or five Sisters at one location. It made me think of a phrase associated with the marines "a few good men."  When I had a chance to see what those few Sisters at one school were able to accomplish its amazing what God can do with a few good Sisters and I realized a group doesnt have to be huge.  Quality over quantity if you will.

 

Quality definitely is much better than quantity.  This is why most if not all religious communities are very careful in selecting candidates.

 

In my own discernment (and it seems not too long ago), when I visited communities, the important values are that they are faithful to the Church's teachings, and to their Order's mission, their love for God and for one another, and that they are happy...and fully 'human.'

 

The Holy Family had only 3 members and the Church began with Jesus calling only 12 disciples to intimately share in his mission...

 

The most important thing to remember in any kind of discernment and especially in religious vocation discernment is to know WHO is calling you.  Your relationship first and foremost must be directed to Christ.  From then, all shall be well. :)

 

Prayers are with you!

 

 

Edited January 10, 2015 by Dominican Nuns Menlo Park

[Kateri89]

I think someone mentioned this before but it can depend on the type of community.  The community I'm discerning with is not large but it is growing slowly and steadily.  All things considered though, it's a contemplative (not cloistered) community with a very small active apostolate and a rather austere way of living.  I feel like similar communities would tend to be smaller than, say, the DSMME.  That seems to be expected and doesn't indicate that the order is dying or unhealthy.   And as someone else mentioned, if God is calling you to a dying order, it's quite possible that His reasoning is for you to help bring that community back to life.  That's a beautiful story if you ask me.

[Kayte Postle]

 And as someone else mentioned, if God is calling you to a dying order, it's quite possible that His reasoning is for you to help bring that community back to life.  That's a beautiful story if you ask me.

 

^^ This.  Take for example the Whitesville Passionists. The community had not received a new vocation in many years. Then a few years ago (the current) Sister Blogger joined the community.  In a blog post she had mentioned her concern over being the only new vocation, but she faithfully followed God's call. Since then they have had a steady stream of vocations coming into the monastery. I think the currently have two postulants and an aspirant.

[Mary+Immaculate<3]

I would go to wherever I was called, but in my personal preference I think I would want a smaller community. Maybe it's because I come from a home with six siblings, and I cherish the times when we were all together (I'm the youngest, they're off with their own lives now in different states). Being able to get to know people on a personal level is important to me, and in a larger community it would be harder to do that without "favoring" Sister X over Sister Y. One of my favorite quotes, which is form John Steinbeck, goes "I wonder how many people I've looked at all my life and never seen." That really is something I think about a lot, what people really have gone through, because it often explains the way they function.

 

This isn't to say there aren't good things about larger communities, who knows, maybe I'll end up at DSMME or SOL or something. But right now I think I like the idea of a smaller one better, even though there is the challenge of the less people, the more you know their faults. That is a sanctifying thing though, something St. Therese went through.

[marigold]

Absolutely, Mary+Immaculate<3 - I find the huge communities impressive, and I'm glad for those who thrive in them, but I think I do better in smaller communities. That family connection is really important to me.

 

Sometimes the language of 'vibrant / stagnant / in decline' makes me uncomfortable, especially when it's solely aimed at the size or age of a community. It feels a bit worldly. 'If lots of young people want to do it, then it must be great!' Christians of all people should be aware of the fickleness of numbers - and it's an incredibly recent phenomenon that we pay attention to what young people want and call that the way forward.

 

Then again, the community I was in was small, and all much older than me, and in that case those things were symptoms of decline. I didn't consider those things red flags when I was getting to know them, and I still wouldn't automatically dismiss a community just because it was a different age bracket or size than I wanted. Sometimes those factors aren't something a community can help, for example if they live a very tough rural life that not many people want long-term, or if social factors cause a large influx of entrants for a few years and then it drops off. The important thing is whether they are spiritually vibrant. That's why I now think looking at the drop-out rate is so important, because all other factors aside, if it's a really great place people will fight to stay there. If they're dropping like flies - and in funny ways, like without telling anyone, or in the dead of night - I would think long and hard about considering that community.

 

If I can dream a little, I'd say my ideal imaginary future community would be on the small side, maybe 10-20 max., and vibrant in the sense of a whole range of ages and cultures, so it would be like a continual Pentecost :cloud9:  It would be in a city or in the wilderness, but nowhere in between. It would be respected but not too famous, so we would have regular interest and women staying with us as enquirers, but not be overrun with groupies. And we would all have a nice cup of tea together every afternoon  :proud:

[katherineH]

Thanks everyone for your responses.  I agree that if no one goes into the smaller communities than that's a sure way for them to disappear.  I want to be mindful of not having a Savior complex going in thinking "this community is in decline and I'm going to bring it back from the dark ages!" That's a sure recipe for disaster :) 

 

 

[Mary+Immaculate<3]

Absolutely, Mary+Immaculate<3 - I find the huge communities impressive, and I'm glad for those who thrive in them, but I think I do better in smaller communities. That family connection is really important to me.

 

Sometimes the language of 'vibrant / stagnant / in decline' makes me uncomfortable, especially when it's solely aimed at the size or age of a community. It feels a bit worldly. 'If lots of young people want to do it, then it must be great!' Christians of all people should be aware of the fickleness of numbers - and it's an incredibly recent phenomenon that we pay attention to what young people want and call that the way forward.

 

Then again, the community I was in was small, and all much older than me, and in that case those things were symptoms of decline. I didn't consider those things red flags when I was getting to know them, and I still wouldn't automatically dismiss a community just because it was a different age bracket or size than I wanted. Sometimes those factors aren't something a community can help, for example if they live a very tough rural life that not many people want long-term, or if social factors cause a large influx of entrants for a few years and then it drops off. The important thing is whether they are spiritually vibrant. That's why I now think looking at the drop-out rate is so important, because all other factors aside, if it's a really great place people will fight to stay there. If they're dropping like flies - and in funny ways, like without telling anyone, or in the dead of night - I would think long and hard about considering that community.

 

If I can dream a little, I'd say my ideal imaginary future community would be on the small side, maybe 10-20 max., and vibrant in the sense of a whole range of ages and cultures, so it would be like a continual Pentecost :cloud9:  It would be in a city or in the wilderness, but nowhere in between. It would be respected but not too famous, so we would have regular interest and women staying with us as enquirers, but not be overrun with groupies. And we would all have a nice cup of tea together every afternoon  :proud:

 

Yeah, I agree, just because a community is small or older, doesn't mean it is hopeless or stagnant. Ahh, that does sound like a wonderful community ;)

 

Another thing that is good about a younger person entering a community with middle aged/elderly sisters is that it could encourage other young women who would have been daunted at being the "only young one," and such. And also many people in the world right now have to be very in tune with technology for work/education reasons. This exposure to media would help the community as a whole with getting more publicity on the internet and other things.