Anomaly Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 I'm surprised nobody had started a Topic on the attack in Paris. A consequence of their own actions? Too much outrage? An example if the fundamental intolerance of Islam? Je Suis Charlie just another trendy Western fad? Any way similar to North Korea's attack on Sony Pictures? How important is freedom of speech when it's rude, crass, or offensive? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lil Red Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 I haven't read much (read: anything) about it and I doubt I will tonight, but I did come across this buzz feed article: http://www.buzzfeed.com/ryanhatesthis/heartbreaking-cartoons-from-artists-in-response-to-the-ch#.don8yda83 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChristianGirlForever Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 I don't want to have a debate about it, but I read everything The NYT had about it today. I'm praying for all concerned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Era Might Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 Ideology is always dangerous, whether it's wielded by presidents, terrorists, or alienated individuals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
veritasluxmea Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 (edited) I've heard people saying Je Suis Charlie doesn't have the right to freedom of speech because of its islamophobic and homophobic publications. I strongly disagree. Freedom of speech means you have the right to say, even write down or publish, what ever viewpoints you want without the fear of being killed. You can boycott, protest, argue against, protect children from, and ask for such publications to shut down, but you can never hurt or kill someone over it. Period. That is freedom of speech. As for Islam in general or intolerance or whatever, I think it's obvious there are issues with violence in the name of that religion. Whether their religious interpretations are technically wrong or not doesn't matter; such violence in the name of religion shouldn't be tolerated either. I have no idea how to help solve the issue, just saying. Edited January 8, 2015 by veritasluxmea Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kia ora Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 (edited) i think god is great. but i don't think god was happy today with his children as they ran down the street shouting that god is great. it seems to me that the real blasphemy was committed by his so called defenders. is this how the prophet of god would have wanted to be remembered? is this his legacy? god forgive us for our sins. Edited January 8, 2015 by Kia ora Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
puellapaschalis Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 As an update: there's been another shooting today (Thursday), killing a policewoman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amppax Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 I'm surprised nobody had started a Topic on the attack in Paris. A consequence of their own actions? Too much outrage? An example if the fundamental intolerance of Islam? Je Suis Charlie just another trendy Western fad? Any way similar to North Korea's attack on Sony Pictures? How important is freedom of speech when it's rude, crass, or offensive? Come on, why would we talk about international incidents? We have a drama thread running full steam! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amppax Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 Also, Bill Donohue's being his usually whiny self, only now he's got everybody mad at him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beatitude Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 (edited) I'm surprised nobody had started a Topic on the attack in Paris. A consequence of their own actions? Too much outrage? An example if the fundamental intolerance of Islam? Je Suis Charlie just another trendy Western fad? Any way similar to North Korea's attack on Sony Pictures? How important is freedom of speech when it's rude, crass, or offensive? To be honest, I think most of the people announcing 'Je suis Charlie' had never really heard of Charlie Hebdo before the murders, or if they had heard of them, hadn't taken much notice of the kind of things they publish. I remember when they ran a cartoon of the Christian girls who were kidnapped by Boko Haram. They portrayed them as ugly and pregnant, bawling that they wanted welfare money - expectant black mothers expecting the state to pay their way, basically. I don't think the rest of Charlie Hebdo's cartoons have been any better, so no, je ne suis pas Charlie. I appreciate satire, I think it has a vital place politically, but it's not necessarily satirical to make malicious fun of people in the way that publication repeatedly does. Satire punches up, not down. That said, people have a right to be rude, crass, and offensive. If that's how they want to waste their time on this earth, let them go ahead. For this reason, the murders can't be a consequence of Charlie Hebdo's own actions - there is a huge difference between being tasteless or even malicious and actually taking a human life. But even so, we shouldn't act as though Charlie Hebdo is some bastion of moral principles that we can all identify with. You can condemn the killings without behaving as though Hebdo itself is something marvellous. Edited January 8, 2015 by beatitude Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basilisa Marie Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 (edited) I don't stand with Charlie, but I do stand with freedom of speech. That magazine is disgusting and offensive on so many levels. But they don't deserve to be murdered over it, and tolerating their murder or saying that they brought it on themselves just sets a dangerous precedent. Freedom of speech means that tripe like Charlie Hebdo is free to publish without fear for their freedom and safety, and it's something I'm willing to live with. Speech is never deserving of death, no matter how bad it is. Edited January 8, 2015 by Basilisa Marie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lil Red Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 Also, Bill Donohue's being his usually whiny self, only now he's got everybody mad at him. I could not possibly convey how much I loathe him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anomaly Posted January 9, 2015 Author Share Posted January 9, 2015 There will be riots in France this year. JSC represents many viewpoints and ideas that are serious socio-political conflicts in France. I think it's the beginning of a coming violent debate for the future of French society. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Era Might Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 There will be riots in France this year. JSC represents many viewpoints and ideas that are serious socio-political conflicts in France. I think it's the beginning of a coming violent debate for the future of French society. We have the Boston marathon bombing trial coming up here tooo. Something strange about the whole spectacle, the plastering of a young man's face constantly, something self-loathing about "justice" and our need to vent our hate on social misfits, who are still part of us, they aren't "other" than us. Riots, it seems, are just another, less civilized, form of that self-destruction. I'm not sure what to make of all these guerilla/terrorist outbursts, but I don't think a "clash of civilizations" or even "justice" is going to resolve it. I was watching Slavoj Zizek talking about the youth riots in England a few years back, arguing that far from being anti-social, their destruction of stores/property/etc. was itself a frustrated expression of capitalism, the only way they knew how to rebel was to loot and steal what they would otherwise buy and sell. Whatever we take from these events, it can't make us a smaller society. I don't think "free speech" in itself enlarges our freedom, there has to be a serious reflection on what are we using it for, which is not to say they "had it coming to them" but just to say, if we're going to risk death, is lampooning Muhammad really the hill we want to die on? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anomaly Posted January 9, 2015 Author Share Posted January 9, 2015 Hebdo lampooned everything. All religions, politics, and economic systems. Freedom of speech is ultimately freedom to disagree. Violent disagreement is what diminishes humanity. I would argue that stifling speech is violence against ideas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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