Here Is A Thread Noone Who Isn't A Mediator Of Meh Can Comment On

[Vincent Vega]

If he is the type of poster this community values then I'll simply say goodbye now. 

:cry4:

 

(And feel free to share a cab with the person propping your posts.)

[PhuturePriest]

That was exactly where I flew off the handle. Burke needs to check himself.
 
I could kiss you right now.
 
I already propped this but I needed to tell you that I also high-fived my screen. So, YES: THIS.

 

Perhaps you're the one who needs to check yourself?

[Basilisa Marie]

Perhaps you're the one who needs to check yourself?

 

Protip: When trolling, be more obvious. :) 

[franciscanheart]

Perhaps you're the one who needs to check yourself?

:huh: Excuse me?

[Winchester]

That was exactly where I flew off the handle. Burke needs to check himself.

I could kiss you right now.

Do you issue rainchecks?

[Amppax]

I don't get why everyone is so pissy, I must have read this much differently than everyone else. There's definitely some flaws, but I don't get this reaction. 

[Lil Red]

My disjointed thoughts on the article:

 

I really hate that every time women start talking about women's issues and feminism and stuff, some guy has to come along and say "But what about the men??!" as if men are being completely ignored in the world. Like this: "Unfortunately, the radical feminist movement strongly influenced the Church, leading the Church to constantly address women’s issues at the expense of addressing critical issues important to men" Like….thousand years + of all about the men and, and then, we talk about the women for maybe 40 years, and ALL OF A SUDDEN HOLY **** IT'S TOO MUCH. 

 

I don't think Cardinal Burke understands that he is saying things in a very simplistic way, for a narrow segment of Catholic society in America.

 

I can see so much of what he is saying is going to get twisted in certain Catholic circles to subjugate women and their roles within the family, society, and the Church. Like: "I recall in the mid-1970’s, young men telling me that they were, in a certain way, frightened by marriage because of the radicalizing and self-focused attitudes of women that were emerging at that time. These young men were concerned that entering a marriage would simply not work because of a constant and insistent demanding of rights for women. These divisions between women and men have gotten worse since then"

 

He's blaming all this **** on "radical feminism" yet, he actually touches on the real problem of incorrect/missing catechesis. That's the problem.

 

He spends half the interview talking down about feminism and women, then says "Women are wonderful of course". ummm, yeah, I can tell you think so.

 

So, he's saying that the church has become feminized. "Men are often reluctant to become active in the Church. The feminized environment and the lack of the Church’s effort to engage men has led many men to simply opt out." But you know what, in most parishes (in my experience), most of the people on parish councils are still men. Most people who have the "say so" on important decisions are still men. Yay the women are still in charge of cleaning and decorating!

 

"There has been, and continues to be, serious liturgical abuses that turn men off. " I think if you properly catechize people, *everyone* is seriously pissed off about liturgical abuse. Not just men.

 

"The loss of the sacred led to a loss of participation of women and men. today, many men are not being drawn to service at the altar. " How does he not connect these two things? If people aren't properly catechized, there will be a loss of participation by both men & women, and of course a loss of vocations!

 

I'm not going to get into the whole altar server thing, except for that I call baloney on the whole "boys don't want to do things with girls, it's just natural".

 

"a New Emangelization" *INSERT HUGE EYEROLL HERE*

 

"First of all, the Church must make a concentrated effort to evangelize men by delivering a strong and consistent message about what it means to be a faithful Catholic man. Men need to be addressed very directly about the demanding and noble challenge of serving Jesus Christ the Eternal King and His Catholic Church. Men are hungry and thirsty for meaning beyond the everyday world." "Young men and young women want to hear words that are directed specifically to them to use their virtues and gifts for the good of everyone." I agree with him.

 

"This is a welcome development, for there was a period of time when men who were feminized and confused about their own sexual identity had entered the priesthood; sadly some of these disordered men sexually abused minors; a terrible tragedy for which the Church mourns" UMM NO. JUST NO. See Winchester's post above.

 

"Yes. One way to re-engage people is to restore the dignity of the liturgy. People will respond when they see a priest reverently acting in the name of Christ. People will not respond when the priest is putting on a show about himself. Offering the Mass in a reverent way has always attracted people throughout the history of the Church. It does today." Fixed this section. Really, the whole section about catechesis needs to read "People need to be catechized." It isn't just men.

 

​And the whole section on Confession. Like…everyone needs to be re-catechized about sin and Confession.

 

"Secondly, I’d advise priests to give special attention to men and to look for ways to draw men into the life of the Church. It is easier to engage women because our sisters tend to be very generous and talented. But the Church and each priest needs to make a determined effort to draw good Catholic men into whatever activities there are in the Church. It is essential to the New Evangelization." I agree with the first sentence, but he really does over-generalize. I know many men in my parish (really in most parishes in my city) who are just as generous as the women are in serving the Church.

 

"I very much commend your work in the New Emangelization." Stop it with that phrase. Seriously.

 

"Men need to reflect on their own experience, even if it was negative. If a father was missing in their lives, men need to realize what they needed in a father and a mother. Fathers and mothers are wonderful gifts that are given to us by God." Agreed.

 

Seriously. Not happy that franny made me read this article.

Edited January 7, 2015 by Lil Red

[PhuturePriest]

I don't get why everyone is so pissy, I must have read this much differently than everyone else. There's definitely some flaws, but I don't get this reaction. 

 

I don't think it helps that I'm the one who posted it, but other than that, it is my experience that anything by Burke or his sympathizers gets a lot of flak from the Phatmass community. Remember the great Bishop Schneider debate of two months ago?

[PhuturePriest]

Protip: When trolling, be more obvious. :)

 

Who said I was trolling?

[Basilisa Marie]

It's because many women, like me, are really tired of women being the scapegoat. Even if those women are "radical feminists" who probably hate almost everything I stand for. And it's super tiring because Burke has a lot of really important things to say but he couches them in myopic sexist drivel and he should know better! I want him to know better! He's such a smart and (formerly, but still) powerful man that I think there's little excuse for him not knowing better. 

 

He could make the same point by couching it in terms of "men, we need to step up!" and it'd be way more powerful. But he doesn't! He's talking about the problem without taking any personal responsibility for it, when it directly concerns people he cares about and groups of which he's a member of. 

 

If being a real man is all about stepping up and taking responsibility and doing the hard, often sacrificial work so that others can survive and thrive, then model that behavior. Don't go on and on about how it's someone else's fault, especially if that someone else isn't in control. No one made the hierarchy listen to "radical feminists." 

[franciscanheart]

I don't think it helps that I'm the one who posted it, but other than that, it is my experience that anything by Burke or his sympathizers gets a lot of flak from the Phatmass community. Remember the great Bishop Schneider debate of two months ago?

Oh yeah, clearly we're all pist because PHETUS. :rolleyes: No one in this thread has made ANY issue with what BURKE said, it's totally all about you. It's always about you, isn't it?

[Lil Red]

It's because many women, like me, are really tired of women being the scapegoat. Even if those women are "radical feminists" who probably hate almost everything I stand for. And it's super tiring because Burke has a lot of really important things to say but he couches them in myopic sexist drivel and he should know better! I want him to know better! He's such a smart and (formerly, but still) powerful man that I think there's little excuse for him not knowing better. 

 

He could make the same point by couching it in terms of "men, we need to step up!" and it'd be way more powerful. But he doesn't! He's talking about the problem without taking any personal responsibility for it, when it directly concerns people he cares about and groups of which he's a member of. 

 

If being a real man is all about stepping up and taking responsibility and doing the hard, often sacrificial work so that others can survive and thrive, then model that behavior. Don't go on and on about how it's someone else's fault, especially if that someone else isn't in control. No one made the hierarchy listen to "radical feminists." 

 

I luff you. 

[4588686]

Protip: When trolling, be more obvious. :)

 

You either need to be subtle or just leave it all on the field. There is no middle way, there's no royal road to trolling. 

[PhuturePriest]

It's because many women, like me, are really tired of women being the scapegoat. Even if those women are "radical feminists" who probably hate almost everything I stand for. And it's super tiring because Burke has a lot of really important things to say but he couches them in myopic sexist drivel and he should know better! I want him to know better! He's such a smart and (formerly, but still) powerful man that I think there's little excuse for him not knowing better. 

 

He could make the same point by couching it in terms of "men, we need to step up!" and it'd be way more powerful. But he doesn't! He's talking about the problem without taking any personal responsibility for it, when it directly concerns people he cares about and groups of which he's a member of. 

 

If being a real man is all about stepping up and taking responsibility and doing the hard, often sacrificial work so that others can survive and thrive, then model that behavior. Don't go on and on about how it's someone else's fault, especially if that someone else isn't in control. No one made the hierarchy listen to "radical feminists." 

 

I think you're reading what you're inclined to read. Granted, I could be doing the same, but I in no way saw him blame women for this. He says the Liturgy has become too feminized, but that doesn't mean women did it, it means men feminized it in the hopes of making it more accessible to everyone. You can disagree with that, but that's what he said. He doesn't blame women, and he doesn't say they are the problem.

 

Oh yeah, clearly we're all pist because PHETUS. :rolleyes: No one in this thread has made ANY issue with what BURKE said, it's totally all about you. It's always about you, isn't it?

 

You are very easily provoked into major emotional drama by little more than a zygote. You might want to get that checked.

[IcePrincessKRS]

You are very easily provoked into major emotional drama by little more than a zygote. You might want to get that checked.

 

Are you for real?