Here Is A Thread Noone Who Isn't A Mediator Of Meh Can Comment On

[Norseman82]

Ve must rigorously censor dangerous dissenting thought!

 

Call in the pc thought police!

 

Or as they used to say "Comrade, you need re-education".

[beatitude]

Well, I'll give you one concrete example:  the butchering of liturgical language due to "inclusive language".  Classic phrases such as "you shall become fishers of men" turned to "you wll be catching people".  Changing "God rest ye merry gentlemen" to "God rest ye merry gentlefolk".  Use in a eucharistic prayer of the clumsy word "humankind" instead of "mankind" because the word "humanity" wasn't good enough for "the feminists" (I'm not making that up - the priest told me that to my face!). 

 

Are you seriously suggesting that men are deserting the church because singing things like 'God rest ye merry gentlefolk' (which by the way is also a traditional variant of the old carol - I've seen that form on a manuscript dating from the mid-nineteenth century) is spiritual kryptonite to their manly souls? That the possibility of receiving Jesus in the flesh is cancelled out by the horror of having to hear 'humankind' instead of 'mankind'?

 

Women have borne a lot throughout Church history, including a theological debate on whether or not they even have souls, and there were no cardinals publicly panicking about their possible exodus from the faith because of that treatment. The concept of rights for women is a relatively new phenomenon, in both secular and religious spheres (my own alma mater wouldn't grant full degrees to women until 1948), and Cardinal Burke's response to this relatively new phenomenon is to decide that too much attention has been given to women and now it's time to focus on men's issues. If the worst of those issues is having to hear 'you will be fishers of people' in certain Masses, then you're extraordinarily fortunate.

 

Finally, no translation is all that classic. If you want classic, then you need to go back to the original languages of Scripture and the tongue spoken by Jesus and his disciples. Once you do, you see that there are almost no gender-neutral forms to choose from in those languages, the way there are in English - everything is gendered. The argument is that the directives in the Bible are intended for everyone to follow, not just men, so where a gender-neutral translation is possible it should be made in order to preserve the accuracy of the content. You might disagree with that, but I think it's very difficult to make a solid argument that an issue of translation is driving men out of the church! Personally I prefer the RSV, which isn't gender-neutral, because I think it does a good job of balancing accuracy of form with accuracy of content as well as being poetically beautiful - but I would never consider leaving the Faith because the NRSV or the Jerusalem Bible happen to be read in a Mass, and I doubt any faithful Catholic would. If Cardinal Burke is correct, and men are honestly doing this, then frankly they have bigger things to worry about than the terrors of this elusive 'feminization'.

Edited January 9, 2015 by beatitude

[Winchester]

Ve must rigorously censor dangerous dissenting thought!

Call in the pc thought police!

The new pm irony capacity had been tested. That post would have shut down the old site.

[Winchester]

There is over-the-counter medication that can help you....

 

I can tell when you're reacting to the poster and not the post. 

[4588686]

The new pm irony capacity had been tested. That post would have shut down the old site.

Muk muk muk

 

I think that a good Christian society should be able to suppress heresy and promote truth

 

People disagree with me!  HELP HELP THE THOUGHT POLICE IZ POLICIN ME!!!!

 

 

Muk muk muk

[MIKolbe]

[4588686]

Ve must rigorously censor dangerous dissenting thought!

 

Call in the pc thought police!

 

I'm a brave voice of dissent. I promote the Catholic religion and the conservative point of view on a Catholic messaging board made up of people who, if they vote, vote almost exclusively Republican. I'm shockingly un-self-aware for a middle age man. 

[franciscanheart]

I'm still trying to figure out what "FetusF*" is supposed to stand for. The only thing I can think of is a bad word, but I'd like to think you're above that.

My mind is a wonderful black hole. If you'd ever like to lose some thoughts when you're halfway through the thought, take a stroll through my brain. :wacko: I am a forgetful person, and I feel that may be a bit of an understatement. That said...

Man, you're vulgar. I meant to include a side note / afterthought (designated by an asterisk) but completely lost the thought before posting. It wasn't until you pointed it out for me that I even realized / remembered I'd done it. But if you'd like for it to mean something, maybe try one of these alternatives?

FetusFun
FetusFunk
FetusFeline
FetusFortune
FetusFloozy
FetusFlower
FetusFox
FetusFunny

Pick up a dictionary. I assure you there's more than one entry under "F" in that handy little reference book.
 

I certainly see why everyone thinks you're so charming.

People think I'm charming?!

[franciscanheart]

There is over-the-counter medication that can help you....

I totally need some Day-Quil. Been meaning to buy it for weeks now.

[franciscanheart]

I certainly see why everyone thinks you're so charming.

[CINDERELLA]
He's a very nice Prince.

[BAKER'S WIFE]
And-?

[CINDERELLA]
And-
It's a very nice ball.

[BAKER'S WIFE]
And-?

[CINDERELLA]
And-
When I entered they trumpeted.

[BAKER'S WIFE]
And-?
The Prince-?

[CINDERELLA]
Oh, the Prince...

[BAKER'S WIFE]
Yes, the Prince!

[CINDERELLA]
Well, he's tall.

[BAKER'S WIFE]
Is that all?
Did you dance?
Is he charming? They say that he's charming.

[CINDERELLA]
We did nothing but dance.

[BAKER'S WIFE]
Yes-? And-?

[CINDERELLA]
And it made a nice change.

[BAKER'S WIFE]
No, the Prince!

[CINDERELLA]
Oh, the Prince...

[BAKER'S WIFE]
Yes, the Prince.

[CINDERELLA]
He has charm for a Prince, I guess...

[BAKER'S WIFE]
guess?

[CINDERELLA]
I don't meet a wide range.



Ear.worm.

[Lil Red]

Are you seriously suggesting that men are deserting the church because singing things like 'God rest ye merry gentlefolk' (which by the way is also a traditional variant of the old carol - I've seen that form on a manuscript dating from the mid-nineteenth century) is spiritual kryptonite to their manly souls? That the possibility of receiving Jesus in the flesh is cancelled out by the horror of having to hear 'humankind' instead of 'mankind'?

 

Women have borne a lot throughout Church history, including a theological debate on whether or not they even have souls, and there were no cardinals publicly panicking about their possible exodus from the faith because of that treatment. The concept of rights for women is a relatively new phenomenon, in both secular and religious spheres (my own alma mater wouldn't grant full degrees to women until 1948), and Cardinal Burke's response to this relatively new phenomenon is to decide that too much attention has been given to women and now it's time to focus on men's issues. If the worst of those issues is having to hear 'you will be fishers of people' in certain Masses, then you're extraordinarily fortunate.

 

Finally, no translation is all that classic. If you want classic, then you need to go back to the original languages of Scripture and the tongue spoken by Jesus and his disciples. Once you do, you see that there are almost no gender-neutral forms to choose from in those languages, the way there are in English - everything is gendered. The argument is that the directives in the Bible are intended for everyone to follow, not just men, so where a gender-neutral translation is possible it should be made in order to preserve the accuracy of the content. You might disagree with that, but I think it's very difficult to make a solid argument that an issue of translation is driving men out of the church! Personally I prefer the RSV, which isn't gender-neutral, because I think it does a good job of balancing accuracy of form with accuracy of content as well as being poetically beautiful - but I would never consider leaving the Faith because the NRSV or the Jerusalem Bible happen to be read in a Mass, and I doubt any faithful Catholic would. If Cardinal Burke is correct, and men are honestly doing this, then frankly they have bigger things to worry about than the terrors of this elusive 'feminization'.

 

[ChristianGirlForever]

He absolutely has a right to his opinion. Unfortunately, his opinion is being broadcast and, due to his station, is supposed to carry weight. This kind of nonsense falls into the wrong hands and, as we've seen, becomes quite scandalous. Males (not always men) like Norseman or FetusF* run with it like it's Truth. It's important that we not allow people to think this is acceptable or accepted by reasonable, faithful Catholics. Just as men can't sit on their laurels and expect to be spoon-fed their faith, we can't stand around and complain about being disregarded in the Church.

I trust the Holy Spirit never to deliver the Church into the hands of people's whose ideologies match those of misguided youth like FF, but I do believe we have a responsibility here on earth to do our own part in seeing to it that something like that doesn't happen.

I'm a woman, and I have agreed with what FuturePriest and Norseman have written in this thread. It is condescending and rude to refer to men as "males." I don't think you would like it very much if you were referred to as a "female." If you expect men to give women respect, then you need to give them that same treatment. Honoring one sex does not mean you should put down the other.

I thought personal attacks were not allowed on this forum, but referring to FuturePriest as a "misguided youth" because you don't agree with him is uncharitable and not a good way to handle an argument.

[veritasluxmea]

[franciscanheart]

I'm a woman, and I have agreed with what FuturePriest and Norseman have written in this thread. It is condescending and rude to refer to men as "males." I don't think you would like it very much if you were referred to as a "female." If you expect men to give women respect, then you need to give them that same treatment. Honoring one sex does not mean you should put down the other.

I thought personal attacks were not allowed on this forum, but referring to FuturePriest as a "misguided youth" because you don't agree with him is uncharitable and not a good way to handle an argument.

A few things that made me laugh:

What made me laugh: "I don't think you would like it very much if you were referred to as a 'female.'"

Why it made me laugh: You don't know me. Because you don't know me, you definitely haven't the faintest idea what I may or may not like. Because I was assumed male for so long on phatmass, I actually would be THRILLED to be addressed as a female. Check out my signature, homeslice. In all seriousness, it wouldn't bother me. Why? Because I am a female. I know, I know: I'm far too accepting of my own sex and gender. I really should be offended at being described in such a repulsive and disrespectful manner... [insert long, deliberate eye roll here]


What made me laugh: "Honoring one sex does not mean you should put down the other."

Why it made me laugh: HAHAHAHAHA! Oh, sorry, still laughing. Did you read the article? Have you read any of the other responses? HAHAHAHAHA! Okay. I was just wondering because I'm pretty sure that's what we've been saying the whole time. HAHAHAHAHA!


What made me laugh: You're number 37 in the list of notes taken for me about personal attacks I've supposedly dished out in this thread.

Why it made me laugh: It's hysterical to me that so many on here are only able to detect supposed ad hominem when it comes from the opposing viewpoint.


[edited for emphasis, which, hopefully, will facilitate easier reading] Edited January 9, 2015 by franciscanheart

[PhuturePriest]

A few things that made me laugh:

What made me laugh: "I don't think you would like it very much if you were referred to as a 'female.'"

Why it made me laugh: You don't know me. Because you don't know me, you definitely haven't the faintest idea what I may or may not like. Because I was assumed male for so long on phatmass, I actually would be THRILLED to be addressed as a female. Check out my signature, homeslice. In all seriousness, it wouldn't bother me. Why? Because I am a female. I know, I know: I'm far to accepting of my own sex and gender. I really should be offended at being described in such a repulsive and disrespectful manner... [insert long, deliberate eye roll here]


What made me laugh: "Honoring one sex does not mean you should put down the other."

Why it made me laugh: HAHAHAHAHA! Oh, sorry, still laughing. Did you read the article? Have you read any of the other responses? HAHAHAHAHA! Okay. I was just wondering because I'm pretty sure that's what we've been saying the whole time. HAHAHAHAHA!


What made me laugh: You're number 37 in the list of notes taken for me about personal attacks I've supposedly dished out in this thread.

Why it made me laugh: It's hysterical to me that so many on here are only able to detect supposed ad hominem when it comes from the opposing viewpoint.

 

Feel free to make ad hominems and be witchy to me all you want, but please refrain from doing so to innocent bystanders. There have been at least five people both on this thread and privately who have told me you're getting way out of line, and you really need to cool it. If you have a problem with me, message me. I tried to last night, but your inbox is full. I can't help but get the impression that there's been an on-going tension and grudge between you and I since August, and I would very sincerely like to resolve it. If you're interested, please message me. If not, please know that you don't have to crash every thread I make with mean sarcasm and ad hominems.