Era Might Posted December 22, 2014 Share Posted December 22, 2014 Suppose a person were to follow all the forms of Catholicism - moral, sacramental, ecclesiastical, etc. - but has no real faith, does not believe in God nor in Christ as God. Would that life not be a lie? Shouldn't that person live their lives according to their lack of faith, rather than live a lie? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amppax Posted December 22, 2014 Share Posted December 22, 2014 Being Catholic necessarily means being able to profess the faith, which would necessitate faith in God. So yes, that life would be a lie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Era Might Posted December 22, 2014 Author Share Posted December 22, 2014 Being Catholic necessarily means being able to profess the faith, which would necessitate faith in God. So yes, that life would be a lie. That's a catch-22 isn't it? How can that person be condemned then, if they are only doing what they must? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted December 22, 2014 Share Posted December 22, 2014 Their reception of the sacraments would be a sacrilege. Thus, if they were to actually follow the 'forms' of Catholicism, as you put it, they would understand that they in fact cannot receive the sacraments without faith, therefore they cannot participate in the life of the Church. Their lack of faith necessarily separates them from the Church. Such a person is not Catholic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Era Might Posted December 22, 2014 Author Share Posted December 22, 2014 Their reception of the sacraments would be a sacrilege. Thus, if they were to actually follow the 'forms' of Catholicism, as you put it, they would understand that they in fact cannot receive the sacraments without faith, therefore they cannot participate in the life of the Church. Their lack of faith necessarily separates them from the Church. Such a person is not Catholic. I'm not entireloy sure of that. I think the will to believe might, theoretically, be accepted as sufficient. But I'm not asking about that so much as the person's dilemma of conscience. The must either live a lie or live their conscience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted December 22, 2014 Share Posted December 22, 2014 I'm not entireloy sure of that. I think the will to believe might, theoretically, be accepted as sufficient. But I'm not asking about that so much as the person's dilemma of conscience. The must either live a lie or live their conscience. I do not think that is sufficient. In order to receive the sacraments one must have faith in their efficacy. Reception of the sacraments by an atheist is necessary sacrilegious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not A Real Name Posted December 22, 2014 Share Posted December 22, 2014 Suppose a person were to follow all the forms of Catholicism - moral, sacramental, ecclesiastical, etc. - but has no real faith, does not believe in God nor in Christ as God. Would that life not be a lie? Shouldn't that person live their lives according to their lack of faith, rather than live a lie? Why would someone follow the forms of Catholicism if they were an atheist? Did this person believe at one point? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhuturePriest Posted December 22, 2014 Share Posted December 22, 2014 If they were to go to communion, and the Priest said "The Body of Christ.", if they were to in response say "Amen." that would be a lie; that "Amen" is a response to that statement, saying "I believe this is the Body of Christ." If you don't believe it truly is (Like many Catholics, unfortunately), that would be lying and thus sacrilege. However, if such a person wanted to go to Mass every week because there was something about it that drew him, he would be more than welcome to do so. He just couldn't receive the Sacraments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not A Real Name Posted December 22, 2014 Share Posted December 22, 2014 Being Catholic necessarily means being able to profess the faith, which would necessitate faith in God. So yes, that life would be a lie. What about an infant baptized in the Catholic Church? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laudate_Dominum Posted December 22, 2014 Share Posted December 22, 2014 An atheistic view on the theism question would seem thoroughly incompatible with profession of the Catholic faith, however, on the more epistemological side I think it's possible to be an agnostic and an adherent of Catholicism. This will no doubt require some unpacking--but alas, I'm on my damned phone again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
veritasluxmea Posted December 22, 2014 Share Posted December 22, 2014 (edited) I think the answer here is sort of. If someone has a hard time emotionally accepting the Catholic Faith but chooses to follow anyways because they know logically the teachings and beliefs are reasonable, I would say yes. That's a case of "mind (or intellect) over emotions," so to speak. But, then he technically wouldn't be Atheist, would he, because he would be intellectually consenting to belief in God, even if He felt that the concept was to horrible to emotionally accept or something. (It's not a fun way to live, but it answers the question.) On the other hand, if someone intellectually believed God didn't exist and choose to keep believing that because they think it's reasonable, then they would be denying the basis of the Catholic Faith ("I believe in one God, the Father Almighty...") and couldn't receive communion (because they wouldn't be in communion with the Church, get it? lol.) This includes agnosticism, choosing to believe that religion is relative goes against Church Teaching ("I believe in one God... in the Holy Catholic Church") But, they could still follow other rituals in the Faith (like fasting, sitting in on mass, and daily prayer) if they just wanted to, for whatever reason. However, that stuff alone wouldn't save them if they were doing it to be on the safe side it would be rather pointless, but maybe it makes them feel better anyways, I don't know. No, they wouldn't be in communion with the Church, but yes, they could be living some of Her practices and they wouldn't get arrested or whatever, lol. Edited December 22, 2014 by veritasluxmea Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not The Philosopher Posted December 22, 2014 Share Posted December 22, 2014 The three salient objective marks of a member of the Church are faith, sacraments and governance. All three are necessary - so no, not really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Socrates Posted December 22, 2014 Share Posted December 22, 2014 That's a catch-22 isn't it? How can that person be condemned then, if they are only doing what they must? If "that person" is truly an atheist, then he believes in no God nor eternal condemnation; and therefore this whole issue would be a mute point. Faith is required for salvation, and a rejection of Faith in Christ cuts one off from Christ and His Church. If one has doubts, even serious doubts, about the Faith, it does not necessarily keep him from Christ, so long as he earnestly wills to believe in Christ and His Church despite them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MIKolbe Posted December 23, 2014 Share Posted December 23, 2014 Suppose a person were to follow all the forms of Catholicism - moral, sacramental, ecclesiastical, etc. - but has no real faith, does not believe in God nor in Christ as God. Would that life not be a lie? Shouldn't that person live their lives according to their lack of faith, rather than live a lie? How does one "follow the forms of Catholicism" if one has "no real faith"? How is a square a square if it has no "real" corners? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Era Might Posted December 23, 2014 Author Share Posted December 23, 2014 (edited) How does one "follow the forms of Catholicism" if one has "no real faith"? How is a square a square if it has no "real" corners? The same way someone might participate in a rain dance without believing in the myth behind it. One can respect and admire myth without believing in it. There are also many practical benefits, e.g., one can admire confession for reasons other than believing in the idea of Christian redemption from sin. Edited December 23, 2014 by Era Might Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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