Dueteronomy 22 : 13-21

[Guest]

Stone a woman for not being a virgin?

Deut. 22:13-21

"If any man takes a wife and goes in to her and then turns against her, 14 and charges her with shameful deeds and publicly defames her, and says, ‘I took this woman, but when I came near her, I did not find her a virgin,’ 15 then the girl’s father and her mother shall take and bring out the evidence of the girl’s virginity to the elders of the city at the gate. 16 "And the girl’s father shall say to the elders, ‘I gave my daughter to this man for a wife, but he turned against her; 17 and behold, he has charged her with shameful deeds, saying, "I did not find your daughter a virgin." But this is the evidence of my daughter’s virginity.’ And they shall spread the garment before the elders of the city. 18 "So the elders of that city shall take the man and chastise him, 19 and they shall fine him a hundred shekels of silver and give it to the girl’s father, because he publicly defamed a virgin of Israel. And she shall remain his wife; he cannot divorce her all his days. 20 "But if this charge is true, that the girl was not found a virgin, 21 then they shall bring out the girl to the doorway of her father’s house, and the men of her city shall stone her to death because she has committed an act of folly in Israel, by playing the harlot in her father’s house; thus you shall purge the evil from among you." (Deut. 22:13-21).

[Guest]

So I have had trouble with the Old Testament for awhile. While I can somehow figure out a way to believe it's inspired by God I can't be honest and say I take much of it literally. I was just made aware of this verse today. I think it's ridiculous and I don't believe this was God's will. Further a few verses later it states that if a man RAPES a woman he only has to pay a fine and can even make her a wife if her parents approve. Yet God told the bearded Jew that if the woman isn't found to be a virgin she is to be stoned to death. As in stone her till she is bloody and torn apart and pronounced dead. I'm supposed to believe this is God's will? Sorry I dont. So where does that leave me ? Am I still Catholic? A heretic? Just curious.

Edited November 30, 2014 by Guest

[Guest]

Can you blame any atheist or agnostic who says I don't believe this? lol

Edited November 30, 2014 by Guest

[Guest]

Also anyone reading this who doesn't believe in God. My faith in the Creator is 100 percent. I've had more then one experience with Him and I know he is there. This is just me being honest and saying I'm right there with you with your objections to things like these. In no way does this challenge my faith in God. As I've said I've had experiences that are legit and lead me to the realization that God is real. Also science points to a Creator with how the laws of nature were set and the cosmological constant. They were so fine tuned it would be impossible for them to be set like that by chance. Scientist know this so that's why the atheist ones really cling on to theories like the multi verse. They know there would have to be trillions and trillions of other universe's with laws set up not right for life to evolve and this was the one set right for life to evolve. If this is the only universe though then there is no other option but an intelligent Creator fine tuning these laws so life could be possible.

Edited November 30, 2014 by Guest

[tinytherese]

I don't think you're a heretic for asking these questions. You're simply asking.

I know that in the ancient times, if a woman had premarital sex, no man would be willing to marry her because she had been with another man. So, the only man that she would be able to marry would be the man she slept with.

If a woman was raped, despite having sex against her will, no man would want her because she had sex with another man. That would unfortunately mean that she would have to marry her rapist since he was the man that she sex with. So, rather than have the woman who had been violated be robbed of marriage too, God gave the requirement that the man marry her. So it was an imperfect act of love from God to ensure that a woman would have a husband.

What's even worse, is that not all women bleed after their first time, so women who really were virgins would be put to death for something they didn't do. So putting a non-virgin to death was a messed up way of discouraging premarital sex, through fear.

Sadly, there still are cultures today who put non-virgin brides to death.

I know that my reply isn't a satisfying answer, but that's what I know right now. Maybe a Church Scholar or another poster on here will research and find a better response to what you've asked. I might be able to find something more, but I don't have as much training in this area.


I agree that those sinarios are terrible.

Edited November 30, 2014 by tinytherese

[Guest]

Thanks for your reply and God bless. How about it's just not God's will? Rather it was some bearded old school Jewish dude who thought yea this is what God wants. The Bible can still be inspired and Jesus can come and set things straight and stop them from stoning the adulter. Because that's what a good loving God does. He stops a woman from being stoned to death. God is love, just, and never changes. So something doesn't add up there is no way around it. lol If God says hey stone that woman to death who wasn't a virgin but let the guy live who raped this other woman (and marry her too if her parents say it's coolio) then I'm sorry but God no longer is just. God gave me a brain and when I use my brain it's not difficult to say hey this is ridiculous. I believe that God willed that as much as I believe he flooded the entire earth. Again I will accept it's Divinely inspired and leads to a greater truth. But I will also tell my atheist friend that I find the verse disgusting and I don't think a woman should ever be stoned to death. And furthermore Jesus didn't either and he stopped those people when they tried. And they hated him for it and crucified him on the cross.

Edited November 30, 2014 by Guest

[Guest]

I think this stuff needs to be discussed more. These are legit questions and with the internet you can't just pretend it's not there or easily explained. Also Catholics/Christians cannot get defensive when atheist/agnostics present these objections. Sure some of them are trolls and have no desire in having a relationship with God. Although there are many who say hey something is wrong about this. Brushing them off and acting as if there is no problem is not the right response. Clearly there is an issue and to say otherwise is not being genuine.

[Guest]

What's even worse, is that not all women bleed after their first time, so women who really were virgins would be put to death for something they didn't do. So putting a non-virgin to death was a messed up way of discouraging premarital sex, through fear.






I agree that those sinarios are terrible.

Excellent point. So I'm supposed to believe God ordered for this to be done knowing actual virgins would be put to death too ? lol It becomes almost laughable if it wasn't so sad. If it wasn't bad enough a non virgin be stoned to death actual virgins would be too. But God doesn't freak out on the man who rapes a woman. He just says hey pay a fine. How convenient. I'll go with allegorical thanks. Would rather just go with delusional Jewish text but I'll play nice. Edited November 30, 2014 by Guest

[Seven77]

this is one of several passages in Scripture that are so shocking at 1st glance that atheists and agnostics like to use them against believers. Josh, I agree that these difficult passages can't be simply ignored––we need to better understand them for ourselves so that we can explain them to others. I'm so glad that you brought up the disturbing passage in Deuteronomy chapter 22 because it gave me the opportunity to do some research on it. Here is what I found:

 

Jimmy Akin of Catholic Answers has written articles on what he refers to as the dark passages of Scripture. I think you'll find that he did a good job of answering the objection that God somehow approves of rape in the Old Testament:

 

Does God Approve of Rape? (Dark Passages)

http://www.ncregister.com/blog/jimmy-akin/does-god-approve-of-rape-dark-passages/

 

So, the law contained in Deuteronomy 22:22–26 is basically designed to determine whether a case has to do with adultery or rape. In the case of a woman in the city, she is a victim of rape if she's heard shouting for help. But in the case of a woman in the countryside, she is given the benefit of doubt and is presumed to be innocent, a victim of rape. We can see that these verses don't condemn rape victims to death.

 

Does God Expect Women to Marry Their Rapists?

http://www.ncregister.com/blog/jimmy-akin/does-god-expect-women-to-marry-their-rapists/#ixzz3LA2oUeHK

 

I never knew these things about Middle Eastern culture of that time… basically, Deuteronomy 22:28, the passage saying that rapists are to marry their victims, is to ensure that they make restitution for their crimes by providing for the woman for the rest of her life. This law was for the sake of deterring rape in the 1st place, because it's too expensive to make restitution for committing it.

 

While those articles don't talk about the earlier passage, Deuteronomy 22:13-22, I think they shed light on it. At any rate, I found some insightful commentary from the Haydock Catholic Bible Commentary. From what I understand, the tokens, or proofs of virginity were foolproof evidence. They could not be misread and used against innocent women. The Haydock commentary notes that the young age of women given of marriage and the climate of the region caused the "tokens of virginity" to be undisputedly clear.

 

After reading all of that, I understand that these cultural laws from the 1st 5 books of the Bible are just that---cultural laws that God worked with until the Israelites grew to maturity and to the revelation of Jesus Christ. Jesus pointed out that Moses allowed for many things because of the hardness of heart. But, Jesus clarifies, “from the beginning it was not so.” (Matthew 19:7–8).