What Does Objectively Disordered Mean?

[Dorian]

I undertstand what the Catechism means when it says that homosexual acts are disordered but what does it mean when it says that the inclination itself is 'objectively disordered'? It's just kind of thrown in there with no explanation or context like the other parts.

Thanks!

 

 

2358 The number of men and women who have deep-seated homosexual tendencies is not negligible. This inclination, which is objectively disordered, constitutes for most of them a trial. They must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided. These persons are called to fulfill God’s will in their lives and, if they are Christians, to unite to the sacrifice of the Lord’s Cross the difficulties they may encounter from their condition.

[PhuturePriest]

Dis-ordered -- It is not ordered towards God's will or his Divine plan for our bodies.

[Not The Philosopher]

Whoops. Misread the OP

Edited November 16, 2014 by Not The Philosopher

[SaintOfVirtue]

Objective, as opposed to subjective, means that the claim is based on fact or viewed in an impartial manner (i.e. not influenced by emotions, dispositions, or biases etc).

[Not The Philosopher]

Objective, as opposed to subjective, means that the claim is based on fact or viewed in an impartial manner (i.e. not influenced by emotions, dispositions, or biases etc).

 

Objective in this case means something slightly different. It means that the problem is with the desire as such. By contrast, if a man is attracted to a woman who is married to someone else, that desire would be subjectively disordered, because in that case it is the circumstances that make the desire problematic. It would be morally wrong for him to attempt to fulfill it.  But we could imagine alternative circumstances where the man would be able to licitly fulfill that desire (if she had married him instead).

Edited November 16, 2014 by Not The Philosopher

[SaintOfVirtue]

I was too hasty in my reply, you made the point I tried to imply.

[Luigi]

As it was explained to me... 

 

Every human faculty has its proper object: the proper object of sight is light; the proper object of taste is flavor; the proper object of hearing is sound. So, it is not possible to smell the color orange, nor to taste F-sharp - one must apply one's faculties to their own proper objects. 

 

In the same way, the proper object of the sexual faculty is members of the opposite sex. In homosexuals, the sexual faculty is directed to an improper object. Which is not to say that they have chosen to direct their sexual faculty improperly - I don't think the Church says anything about why or how the faculty gets improperly directed. 

 

As Dorian implies, though, many people misunderstand the term (to mean "in a detached, dispassionate way"), which leads to a lot of misunderstanding of the term by both non-Catholics and Catholics alike. I, too, wish the catechism explained the term in a footnote or something. 

[Basilisa Marie]

It also has to do with the idea that there's a certain "order" of good things. You can think of it like a list - God is at the top, and the closer something is on the list to God, the better it is. Lower goods "point" toward higher goods, and when you've got the right order of good things, your whole life is directed toward God, and it's easier to make decisions that put God first, etc.  "Disorder" in the Church's sense means that things are out of their proper order on the "list."  Like others said, "objectively disordered" means that the thing that is disordered is fundamentally directed away from God and the good.  "Intrisically disordered" is a kind of synonym, too.  Our inclination to sin is an inclination towards disordering the goods in our lives.   

[nikita92]

Some great input!! Thanks all!!! ;))

[Aragon]

Is it just homosexuals who are objectivey disordered? Seems a bit harsh...without the explanation that Luigi gave it makes them sound like they're mentally ill or something.

[Not The Philosopher]

Is it just homosexuals who are objectivey disordered? Seems a bit harsh...without the explanation that Luigi gave it makes them sound like they're mentally ill or something.

 

The take-home point shouldn't be that homosexual persons are disordered or crazy (or at least I don't think I'm crazy). There's a distinction between the person and the desire, and we're using the word 'disordered' in the moral-theological sense, not the psychological sense.

 

[PhuturePriest]

The take-home point shouldn't be that homosexual persons are disordered or crazy (or at least I don't think I'm crazy). There's a distinction between the person and the desire, and we're using the word 'disordered' in the moral-theological sense, not the psychological sense.

 

 

Indeed. Whereas I, a person with opposite-sex attractions, am fully aware that I am crazy.

[PhuturePriest]

Is it just homosexuals who are objectivey disordered? Seems a bit harsh...without the explanation that Luigi gave it makes them sound like they're mentally ill or something.

 

Many people get confused about it because of the common use of the word "disordered". However, we must remember that these are Church documents, and thus use a very academic and higher language than everyday street language. Some people are calling for everyday language to be used in these documents, but in my opinion, lowering standards is not the way to go and it has never been the way of the Church. We should instead educate people to where they know what these words mean in their truest sense without explanation, that way Catholics won't be confused when they see language used like this.

 

And all sin is disordered. They merely state it specifically here so that it is clear that same-sex relationships are not to be tolerated or accepted.

Edited November 17, 2014 by PhuturePriest

[Basilisa Marie]

Is it just homosexuals who are objectivey disordered? Seems a bit harsh...without the explanation that Luigi gave it makes them sound like they're mentally ill or something.

 

Oh no, of course not.  We all experience various levels of disorder in our lives, and plenty of other sins are objectively disordered. I'd argue the seven deadly sins are objectively disordered inclinations. It's just that "objectively disordered" gets thrown around a lot when people talk about homosexuality, and it doesn't always get the appropriate context. It's a technical term, not the same as what we would consider a medical disorder (since medicine is the context a lot of us get the word disorder from). 

[maximillion]

 

 

Every human faculty has its proper object: the proper object of sight is light; the proper object of taste is flavor; the proper object of hearing is sound. So, it is not possible to smell the color orange, nor to taste F-sharp - one must apply one's faculties to their own proper objects. 

 

 

 

Synesthesia (also spelled synæsthesia or synaesthesia; from the Ancient Greek ÏƒÏÎ½ syn, "together", and Î±á¼´ÏƒÎ¸Î·ÏƒÎ¹Ï‚ aisthÄ“sis, "sensation") is a neurological phenomenon in which stimulation of one sensory or cognitive pathway leads to automatic, involuntary experiences in a second sensory or cognitive pathway.^[1][2][3][4] People who report such experiences are known as synesthetes.

 

 

Not that this contributes much to the above, but I just wanted to point out that it is possible to see sound and feel colour.......I do, quite frequently. So yes, in fact it IS possible to smell the colour orange and taste F sharp.......