HisChildForever Posted October 27, 2014 Share Posted October 27, 2014 I actually think it may be better for someone who feels they are a girl to live as a girl, I think that depends on the situation. I have a question based on this...provided the person not mutilate themselves (take hormones and undergo surgery), is it considered sinful to dress and present one's self as the opposite sex? Essentially it's society that's decided gender-specific clothing, not God. Unless it's not so much the clothing, as the person rejecting God's original design for him or her? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benedictus Posted October 27, 2014 Share Posted October 27, 2014 I'm going to think out loud on something for just a moment: Like I mentioned, the start of my discernment and the sudden rise in the intensity of this were very closely linked. What if it was God merely asking me to get in touch with the more feminine; the more nurturing, aspects of myself in preparation for eventual pastoral life. I just took the ball and ran a little too far with it with society's help. People generally have a, for want of a better term, settled and clear sense of themselves as a specific gendered person, regardless of the problems posed by their personality or otherwise. Vocation discerners tend to struggle with questions of where to go and what to do above all else. In my experience discernment doesn't typically raise the core questions you're experiencing. In most fields I wouldn't say your experience is typical. I'm also discerning at the moment with a religious institute and it's not something that I've personally experienced either. I have a background in a professional field where there are statistically large numbers of women and I've never wondered whether I should be a woman to learn the skills, traits and ideas they hold. Sure, people may need to open up more or work at being more nurturing, less agressive etc. However, these things are more about traits and skills that one would develop within the body and gender that they have. A man, as an example, wouldn't usually question whether they should change their sex in order to become more nurturing, do you see what I mean? They are univesally embodied within both men and women, even if sometimes expressed differently. I think those matters are different to the questions of whether one thinks they 'are' a man or women (and therefore how that's lived out socially, sexually, relationally etc). Where I agree with you, and I think I said it in my last post, is that it may help you to experiment with the notions of the masculine and feminine within your existing identity. There is an idea held by some that the conformity and application of gender norms causes some people to feel that they aren't suited to the confines of the body they have. It's therefore natural that some people experiencing this come to think that they might be transexual. This is understandable if someone can't pinpoint the cause of what's going on. This is one aspect among many that needs to be addressed, and discredited, before the therapy moves towards the point of gender surgery. There's lot of grey areas but I hope you do well with the process. I won't write any more long posts on the thread here (hijack alert averted) but feel free to PM me if you want. P.s Look up Judith Butler, if you have time. She did some work that most academics are still talking about. One book, which springs to mind, is Gender Trouble: Feminism and the Subversion of Identity. :flex2: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
veritasluxmea Posted October 27, 2014 Share Posted October 27, 2014 (edited) I have a question based on this...provided the person not mutilate themselves (take hormones and undergo surgery), is it considered sinful to dress and present one's self as the opposite sex? Essentially it's society that's decided gender-specific clothing, not God. Unless it's not so much the clothing, as the person rejecting God's original design for him or her? I don't know. I do know actors used to be all male and would play female roles, that's not wrong. All I could find was this opinion: The Catechism reminds us that we are all called to embrace our sexual and gendered identity (CCC# 2333). In Scripture, St. Paul condemns the idea of men trying to women and women who try to be men. Inasmuch as dressing in a drag is rejection of one’s physical sex and attempt to become another, it is not morally acceptable. http://thepapists.tumblr.com/post/21039911838/is-dressing-in-drag-morally-acceptable Edited October 27, 2014 by veritasluxmea Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benedictus Posted October 27, 2014 Share Posted October 27, 2014 (edited) Veritasluxmea - I think you should create your own thread unless you're dealing with something specific to the OP and their situation. I don't think it was general until you posted that, and either way, the thread is being drifted. P.s I don't agree with much of anything you wrote :blues: Edited October 27, 2014 by Benedictus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
veritasluxmea Posted October 27, 2014 Share Posted October 27, 2014 Good point- if a mod thinks I've gone too OT feel free to delete/move it. (Sorry Phatmass for getting off topic :P) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
penguin31 Posted October 27, 2014 Author Share Posted October 27, 2014 (edited) I think I may be far closer to making peace with myself than I'd expected when I made this thread - and as a bonus it's even in a way that reconciles with Church teaching and my own personal search for my Vocation. Honestly, I think I just needed to be told I was still loved and still welcome even after having spent the past year and a half thinking about this. I never really did anything physically, so there's no real lasting physical damage in having asked the question - and no risk of scandal by re-integrating myself into Parish life. And I'm not afraid of that vocational call anymore either. After staring THIS down and now coming out the other side, well... I'm one Confession away from being back in full Communion. I think I may go this week. Thanks all. Edited October 27, 2014 by penguin31 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Semper Catholic Posted October 27, 2014 Share Posted October 27, 2014 Our bodies are simply a vessel for our mind. Do with them as you feel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Credo in Deum Posted October 27, 2014 Share Posted October 27, 2014 Our bodies are simply a vessel for our mind. Do with them as you feel. "Or know you not, that your members are the temple of the Holy Ghost, who is in you, whom you have from God; and you are not your own ? For you are bought with a great price. Glorify and bear God in your body."-- 1 Corinthians 6:20 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhuturePriest Posted October 27, 2014 Share Posted October 27, 2014 I think I may be far closer to making peace with myself than I'd expected when I made this thread - and as a bonus it's even in a way that reconciles with Church teaching and my own personal search for my Vocation. Honestly, I think I just needed to be told I was still loved and still welcome even after having spent the past year and a half thinking about this. I never really did anything physically, so there's no real lasting physical damage in having asked the question - and no risk of scandal by re-integrating myself into Parish life. And I'm not afraid of that vocational call anymore either. After staring THIS down and now coming out the other side, well... I'm one Confession away from being back in full Communion. I think I may go this week. Thanks all. I remember you very well, and perhaps you remember me (Don't let Dust's tomfoolery confuse you; my original name was FuturePriest387). I'm very happy to see you back, and know that I will be praying for you. May the peace of God which surpasses all understanding guard your heart and mind in Christ Jesus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amppax Posted October 27, 2014 Share Posted October 27, 2014 Pen! Good to see you again. I don't have anything to add, but know you're in my prayers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ice_nine Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 I just don't get it. I'm sorry, but I don't understand . . . your name is penguin yet you have a rubber duck for your avatar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archaeology cat Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 I remember you. :) Prayers. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheresaThoma Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 I think I may be far closer to making peace with myself than I'd expected when I made this thread - and as a bonus it's even in a way that reconciles with Church teaching and my own personal search for my Vocation. Honestly, I think I just needed to be told I was still loved and still welcome even after having spent the past year and a half thinking about this. I never really did anything physically, so there's no real lasting physical damage in having asked the question - and no risk of scandal by re-integrating myself into Parish life. And I'm not afraid of that vocational call anymore either. After staring THIS down and now coming out the other side, well... I'm one Confession away from being back in full Communion. I think I may go this week. Thanks all. Good to hear! Maybe I will get my butt back to confession this weekend too. Its been awhile Remember the Evil One always wants us to keep things in secret and in the dark. We can only see things truely and clearly when we bring them out into the light. That and a whole lot of love keeps everything in its proper perspective. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
penguin31 Posted October 28, 2014 Author Share Posted October 28, 2014 I just don't get it. I'm sorry, but I don't understand . . . your name is penguin yet you have a rubber duck for your avatar. It was a confusing time in my life! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not A Mallard Posted October 29, 2014 Share Posted October 29, 2014 (edited) I'm glad that you're able to find peace through this thread. (Look at that, I'm not a duck either!) Edited October 29, 2014 by Not A Mallard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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