Where I've Been, And Where I'm At.

[penguin31]

Those of you who were active, particularly in the site's chat, in 2010-12 might remember me.  

I've been functionally inactive on this site now for about two years, and I wanted to explain why, because it's really weighing on me heavily, and has caused tremendous struggles with my faith.  Is it personal? Heck yes. But I need to talk this out because I'm faced with a tremendous moral dilemma I can't reconcile. 

I've had this thing lurking in the background noise of my life for, well, my entire life.  Literally permeates my earliest memories.  That feeling I wasn't quite right.  I was born a boy, but there's always been this voice yelling out "you're a girl" in the back of my mind.  And that voice is getting louder with age and time.  

And because I know fully well what the Church's stance on transsexualism typically is, needless to say, there's been a crisis of faith.  I do recognize the interesting timing of this problem becoming exponentially more burdensome at virtually the same moment I was beginning to discern a Vocation.  But the problem didn't start there, I know that much for sure. 

If God wanted me female, He would have made me a girl at birth, right?  Unless He needed me to be a boy for a while and then change over and be a woman for a while.  Everyone reading this knows that God's plans for us can often be quite complex and multi-layered. 

I’ve prayed. I’ve prayed as hard as any human can pray. Prayed to God, Christ; I’ve prayed for the intercession of Mary and the Saints.  I’ve prayed to be a girl.  I’ve prayed to be a 100% normal cis male.  I've asked others to pray for me.  And every day, I wake up and here I am again, still me, and still caught in this waking Purgatory.  And over time, being stuck in this quagmire starts to cause a person to ask if there's really even a God up there listening to me, because this stuff is weighing me down and my burden is most definitely not being lifted.  

I tried going to Mass on multiple occasions, even tried services in other denominations, but with the weight of the cross I was bearing, everything just felt hollow.  Talking to Priests as well as other faith leaders typically led to reminders of the church's teachings that are well-meaning but carry no emotional resonance, while talking to therapists and counselor's typically leads to a lot of "Transition! Be happy! Be a special snowflake!" enabling that is well-meaning but carries no spiritual resonance. 

I'm really not sure why I'm even posting this.  Maybe it's for prayers. Maybe it's just a need to vent.  Maybe it's for advice.  I dunno.  But that's why I disappeared, it's why I'm currently a lapsed Catholic, and it's why I need whatever can be offered to me, and offered up for me - because I have one significant problem. 

Anyway, that's where I've been.  
*Returns to lurking in the shadows*

[Lil Red]

I don't have much to offer in the way of advice, but I am glad that you felt you could come here and open up and speak to this phamily. I can't offer any platitudes, or words of wisdom. All I can offer you is a listening heart, because I don't know the struggle you're going through. Know that you are loved, very much, by God and by others, even if you feel alone, unwanted, or abandoned. I will pray for the peace of Christ for you.  :sleep:

[veritasluxmea]

I wish there was something I could say that would bring you peace, but like Lil Red I have nothing to offer. I want you to know I'm praying for you to find peace with yourself and God. 

 

And thank you for sharing with the phamily. You're welcome to post without a "reason."

[Credo in Deum]

Thank you for sharing your personal thoughts with us. I can't imagine it to be an easy thing to do. I've struggled and still struggle with things of a sexual nature. I don't disagree with the Church on its stance but this has not made it any less of a struggle for me. I'm a fallen human and so I'm inclined towards sin and where I struggle others don't; however, on the other hand where they struggle I do not. With that said when it comes to struggling with my fallen nature I like to, with the help of God's grace, join my struggles with Christ. Sure most people will role their eyes on that suggestion, but it makes perfect sense to me. I used to think "what does Christ know of this struggle of nature" but then I realized He knows very well the difficulty that comes with having a nature no one would understand. He knows the lonliness and He knows what it's like to have a nature which came with a Cross. He knows my pain and has carried it and conquered it.

I will keep you in my prayers. Please pray for me.

[Not The Philosopher]

I'm way out of my league here when it comes to offering advice, but, like the others, I'll keep you in my prayers.

[CatherineM]

I know places to find women's dress shoes in larger sizes. I've had some trans clients, and they taught me lots of stuff.

[TheresaThoma]

Pen! Good to see you around. Like most others I don't have any wise words to offer but don't feel like you have to lurk. Maybe try to find a good Catholic therapist,they might be able to help you balance and work through this.

[Spem in alium]

I remember you; nice to see you. :) I have known a couple of people in a similar position as you, and it is hard. I can't really offer much in the way of advice, but know that I will be praying for you. Wishing you deep peace.

[Benedictus]

Those of you who were active, particularly in the site's chat, in 2010-12 might remember me.  

I've been functionally inactive on this site now for about two years, and I wanted to explain why, because it's really weighing on me heavily, and has caused tremendous struggles with my faith.  Is it personal? Heck yes. But I need to talk this out because I'm faced with a tremendous moral dilemma I can't reconcile. 

I've had this thing lurking in the background noise of my life for, well, my entire life.  Literally permeates my earliest memories.  That feeling I wasn't quite right.  I was born a boy, but there's always been this voice yelling out "you're a girl" in the back of my mind.  And that voice is getting louder with age and time. 
 

 

I think it's great you've been able to come back here and share this with us all. I wasn't around here back then but, along with everyone else, you're in my prayers. It's worth saying, I think, that you're never alone -  there's always someone who wants to listen and God, ultimately, wants what's good, whole and loving for you.

 

And because I know fully well what the Church's stance on transsexualism typically is, needless to say, there's been a crisis of faith.  I do recognize the interesting timing of this problem becoming exponentially more burdensome at virtually the same moment I was beginning to discern a Vocation.  But the problem didn't start there, I know that much for sure. 
 

 

I think when we explore Vocation we come back to the questions at the very deepest parts of ourselves - who are we, what is God saying, where am I to go, who am I to share my life with, what gifts do I have, what are my weaknesses or failures, and what am I supposed to become? I think it's a very personal journey but God is there, at the centre of it. I think God is always calling us towards the way that will draw out the most loving, creative and holy within us. Our specific vocation is an expression of that, for us personally. So I think it makes lots of sense that issues around your gender identity come more to the surface at the same time as all these other considerations. It may well be the case that God is trying to say something to do you about all of this, which is relavant to you going forward as a person made in his image and love.

 

 

If God wanted me female, He would have made me a girl at birth, right?  Unless He needed me to be a boy for a while and then change over and be a woman for a while.  Everyone reading this knows that God's plans for us can often be quite complex and multi-layered.

 

I think the natural world is complicated and things are messy.  There are lots of situations where babies are born a specific way where people wouldn't necessarily think God 'wanted' it that way.  So I don't think we can skip over that and say physical birth sex is a causal, or perfect, system equals what Gods desires. I mean there are intersex babies as well. There's always an exception to the rule.

 

I don't personally take the view that everything that happens in the natural world is necessarily created or caused by God. Equally I don't think everything that humans create, do or say is correct, desired or approved by God (even when they, or a church, say so). I personally think that issues need a collective approach of theology, philosophy, science, social sciences and technology to understand things more fully. This helps discernment about what God is saying, doing, and desiring for us in any given time and place. I think it's also worth looking into some of the views currently at work in Psychology, Sociology, Gender Theory. This overlaps into Gender theology, check out Marcella Althaus-Reid and Robert Goss. 

I personally don't think our physical sex is the same thing as our gender. I take the view that gender is socially constructed: dress, attitudes, gender roles, masculinity and femininity and so on are all human constructs, which vary according to culture and time. If you were able to express yourself more by experimenting with your identity in how you dress or interact in the world, in a way that feels comfortable to you, it may bring a synthesis of self which you are content with. There are people who are content with this and don't seek to have gender reassignment surgery. However, there will be some who have tried this and don't feel it is enough for them to reflect who they truly are. If this process is sought then it does take time, which is right, and a specialist therapist who will understand your life story and beliefs.

You didn't mention it, and it's a side issue, but it's worth thinking about how you feel your gender identity relates to how you express your sexuality. Who would you be seeking, if at all, to form a future relationship with and so on. If you had any sort of future surgery how would you relate as a heterosexual women, bisexual or as a lesbian.  I think it helps to try and integrate these considerations as you go along with a therapist.
 

 

I’ve prayed. I’ve prayed as hard as any human can pray. Prayed to God, Christ; I’ve prayed for the intercession of Mary and the Saints.  I’ve prayed to be a girl.  I’ve prayed to be a 100% normal cis male. I've asked others to pray for me.  And every day, I wake up and here I am again, still me, and still caught in this waking Purgatory.  And over time, being stuck in this quagmire starts to cause a person to ask if there's really even a God up there listening to me, because this stuff is weighing me down and my burden is most definitely not being lifted. 

Prayer is essential for personal growth, discernment, understanding and building relationship. But we can also, at times, request the impossible to happen and become disapponited when this dosn't happen. I think prayer can help you relate to yourself, God and to better understand and live with the situation and choices you may wish to make.

Prayer comes into action through human minds, hands and hearts. God helps us live with suffering and downfall, even through the times when it doesn't go as we'd like. But we need to be open to accepting and loving ourselves, God and other. Maybe God doesn't want you to go on desiring him to alter who you are. Maybe this prayer makes him sad, and he is in your suffering with you. I think God always seeks for us to grow in love and to transform ourselves into who we are called to be. We just need to work out what that is, which is the hard part. Above all though, don't beat yourself up over it and have compassion for yourself along the way. The issue is there,  you can find ways to deal with it (what feels right and at the time for you) and you have

 

 

I tried going to Mass on multiple occasions, even tried services in other denominations, but with the weight of the cross I was bearing, everything just felt hollow.  Talking to Priests as well as other faith leaders typically led to reminders of the church's teachings that are well-meaning but carry no emotional resonance, while talking to therapists and counselor's typically leads to a lot of "Transition! Be happy! Be a special snowflake!" enabling that is well-meaning but carries no spiritual resonance.

 I don't think you're alone and many people feel stuck between a rock and a hard place on various issues. I struggle all the time to relatesome of the abstract theory the church holds as relevant to the pains and reality of daily life. It's the current challenge of large parts of theology I think.

But I think there is a creative tension, a way forward in difficult situations. God seems to usuallly be at the point where that tension or limit exists; with those on the outside and or find themselves on the periphery somehow. I'm not sure you'll ever get the affirmation you may seek from the church at this point in space and time. But you will find voices and many examples of people who are living out a Christian faith as best they can, even though their response to those challenges is different. There have been cases of transgendered people becoming clergy and or transitioning when they are clergy. The Anglican church has examples, such as Rev Dr Cameron Partridge, Rev Dr Christina Beardsley and others. There have been Catholic clergy and religious who have joined the Epicopalians during/after their transitions because they have been pushed out of the Catholic church, although not always with the wishes of the congregation/institute where they lived. This isn't something the Catholic church puts in the weekly news but I'd say it's not an insignificant number.

I would say to keep going to services. Draw close to God there and rest upon him, regardless of what else is going on. I would say to maybe look at a range of support, even if they aren't Catholic. Ther are organisations like Dignity and Courage  that work on the Catholic spectrum. But there is also the Metropolitan Community Churches and others. In my country they have a group called Sybils, for transgender Christians.

 

I'm really not sure why I'm even posting this.  Maybe it's for prayers. Maybe it's just a need to vent.  Maybe it's for advice.  I dunno.  But that's why I disappeared, it's why I'm currently a lapsed Catholic, and it's why I need whatever can be offered to me, and offered up for me - because I have one significant problem. 
 

I hope this helps, or at least adds in a different perspective somehow. I would just say to try and not push God out because dealing with Church and doctrine feels like it makes the issues worse. I can see why it would, and why this maybe a natural reaction, but God is on your side regardless of all else. Even if it's a work that needs to happen only between you and him alone at the moment then try to to keep that door open :joecool: It's also fine to tell God you're totally fed up and want to be angry -  I find it helps when I want to vent :smile4:

 

Edited October 26, 2014 by Benedictus

[beatitude]

I am not feeling well and can't sit upright for too long, but I just wanted to say that I'm praying for you too, and to second the reminders that while other people might struggle to understand us (heck, sometimes we struggle to understand ourselves!) God understands us perfectly and loves us completely.

[penguin31]

Just wanted to check in, and say that I read everyone's amazingly loving words - as well as Benedictus' incredible post. I admit, I was ashamed to come back, knowing what my deal was, and fearing what the reactions would be. You're incredibly kind, thoughtful people and I'm sorry I forgot that.   Beatitude, I hope you get to feeling wells soon. 

I'm still trying to process everything and am still in the earliest stages of processing this.  I'm not sure where my own future lies yet, other than that I'm continuing to seek counseling and continuing to pray.  I'd be happy to answer any questions anyone here might have of me. But thanks for the kindness, everyone.

Edited October 27, 2014 by penguin31

[penguin31]

I'm going to think out loud on something for just a moment:  Like I mentioned, the start of my discernment and the sudden rise in the intensity of this were very closely linked.  What if it was God merely asking me to get in touch with the more feminine; the more nurturing, aspects of myself in preparation for eventual pastoral life. I just took the ball and ran a little too far with it with society's help. 

[HisChildForever]

I cannot even begin to imagine your struggle. Prayers and peace for you.

[HisChildForever]

I'm going to think out loud on something for just a moment:  Like I mentioned, the start of my discernment and the sudden rise in the intensity of this were very closely linked.  What if it was God merely asking me to get in touch with the more feminine; the more nurturing, aspects of myself in preparation for eventual pastoral life. I just took the ball and ran a little too far with it with society's help. 

 

Hm. Maybe check out "Man and Woman: A Divine Intervention" by Alice von Hildebrand.

[veritasluxmea]

 

I think the natural world is complicated and things are messy.  There are lots of situations where babies are born a specific way where people wouldn't necessarily think God 'wanted' it that way.  So I don't think we can skip over that and say physical birth sex is a causal, or perfect, system equals what Gods desires. I mean there are intersex babies as well. There's always an exception to the rule.

 

I don't personally take the view that everything that happens in the natural world is necessarily created or caused by God. Equally I don't think everything that humans create, do or say is correct, desired or approved by God (even when they, or a church, say so). I personally think that issues need a collective approach of theology, philosophy, science, social sciences and technology to understand things more fully. This helps discernment about what God is saying, doing, and desiring for us in any given time and place. I think it's also worth looking into some of the views currently at work in Psychology, Sociology, Gender Theory. This overlaps into Gender theology, check out Marcella Althaus-Reid and Robert Goss. 

I personally don't think our physical sex is the same thing as our gender. I take the view that gender is socially constructed: dress, attitudes, gender roles, masculinity and femininity and so on are all human constructs, which vary according to culture and time. If you were able to express yourself more by experimenting with your identity in how you dress or interact in the world, in a way that feels comfortable to you, it may bring a synthesis of self which you are content with. There are people who are content with this and don't seek to have gender reassignment surgery. However, there will be some who have tried this and don't feel it is enough for them to reflect who they truly are. If this process is sought then it does take time, which is right, and a specialist therapist who will understand your life story and beliefs.

Not a response to the OP, this is just kind of a general discussion now- I was reading the above and it got me thinking, so I thought I'd think out loud- might be kind of rambly. 

 

I agree with the bolded, I think things happen which are not part of God's original plan or will, such as young death, disorders, addictions, and the like. However, being God he is able to work through, transform, and heal those wounds in our life into something greater, if not complete in this life than the next. That's what the Passion and Death of Jesus is about, finding peace/healing with ourselves and God, no longer damaged by original sin. 

 

1.- Souls are not genderless/sexless. There are only male and female souls, and you only have one. (God is the only "combination" of the two.) 

 

So since genetics are also wounded by original sin (as seen with fetal disorders and dispositions to additions), would they also be damaged in such a way that someone would be born the opposite  sex/gender of their soul? 

 

2. Physical bodies are an expression of the spiritual soul- so male bodies are an expression of the male soul, and so fourth. (This is how it will be after the Resurrection of the dead- we will be living in heaven, united body and soul in our physical bodies, glorified, either male or female.)

3- Intersex is not an exception to the "rule". People born intersex are also born male or female, but due to original sin, are born with extra male or female parts. (can go deeper in this to "prove" it but I want to finish this first)

4- Original sin has not corrupted the unity between body and soul to the point where souls are "floating" around or (human) bodies are living without a soul. Therefore, original sin has not corrupted the laws and design of nature itself. It has to corrupt things within the designs of the universe. 

 

So after considering the above, I'm inclined to say no to the question since original sin has not corrupted the unity of body and soul. (Even intersex people are born one or the other.) That's not to say people should live one way or the other in society, I actually think it may be better for someone who feels they are a girl to live as a girl, I think that depends on the situation. Anyways, that's where I'm at so far, but I'd love to read a reasonable discussion that souls are genderless/sexless?