Sin And Discernment

[rjzaar]

I'm wondering to what extent does sin come into discernment, eg if you resist a prompting of the Holy Spirit is that a sin? Or if over a period of time you clearly believe you are called to priesthood and resist - is that a sin? Can you think of other examples or various degrees? Is there any thing in Church teaching on this? Anything by Benedict or JP2? Anything by the saints? What is the overlap between morality and spirituality? Is it a matter that if a choice is licit, then you freely choose without a sin 'penalty'? Any thoughts welcome. :)

[beatitude]

It sounds to me as though you are suffering a bit from scrupulosity. :) Vocation is about loving God in the best way you can and in order to love fully we need to have freedom to choose. For quite a while during my discernment I got panicked that there was just one religious community that was 'meant for me', and that if I didn't find it then I wouldn't do God's will and I'd be miserable forever, so I started obsessively hunting for signs of God's will. "I saw a Benedictine sister today, was that a sign I should be a Benedictine? I felt peaceful when praying before Mass on the feast of St Such-and-such - does this mean I must join a community with that spirituality?!" Now I understand that vocation isn't like that. It shouldn't be treated as a big stressful hunt with the penalty of sin hanging over your head if you don't look in the right cupboards. In your position, I would think less about sin and more about love and joy. What gives you joy? What allows you to give joy to others and to love them best?

[rjzaar]

Yes, I totally agree. This is actually a question for an essay I want to write and I'm exploring the topic. I'm wondering is it possible that a discernment question would also involve sin or not or is it always a matter of no sin involved. If that were the case then I could do what I pleased as long as I don't break the rules and I would then get to heaven. But would this then deny faith? Personally I'm not concerned about these issues, but theoretically I want to push the question so I can gain a better understanding of the issues involved and the nature of conscience and discernment. 

You have explained the experience of discernment well and I agree love and joy is the path of discernment. :)

 

[MarysLittleFlower]

I'm wondering to what extent does sin come into discernment, eg if you resist a prompting of the Holy Spirit is that a sin? Or if over a period of time you clearly believe you are called to priesthood and resist - is that a sin? Can you think of other examples or various degrees? Is there any thing in Church teaching on this? Anything by Benedict or JP2? Anything by the saints? What is the overlap between morality and spirituality? Is it a matter that if a choice is licit, then you freely choose without a sin 'penalty'? Any thoughts welcome. :)

Hi, the church teaches that if we reject our vocation we will miss out on graces so it will be more difficult to be saved... Your vocation is to help you become a Saint and it will be more difficult in other states of life. I think it's best to not wonder what is the minimum we could do without sin, and instead, think about doing God's Will perfectly. The basis of the original sin is self will... Every time we choose our will over God's Will, that is an imperfection. Our goal is not just to avoid mortal sin but to become saints... We need to choose what is most perfect. Resisting the Holy Spirit knowingly is a sin I think... And we need to try our best to discern our vocation and be open. In the end we have a choice... Some people feel a call very strongly and others feel drawn in a particular direction. God does not scare us into a vocation, you are free to choose or not... However resisting a clear call shows a heart that is not willing to do His Will and that comes from sin, and it's harder to become holy in a different vocation, it is even harder to be saved. Also the vocation that God has for you is.the best for you and it's where God has prepared graces... The particular mission that He has for each soul, for you, is unique and unrepeatable - if you resist it, it could not be done by another in the same way, though God can bring good out of our mistakes. So with this in mind, why would you ever resist His Will? :) if your goal is to do God's Will only, you won't be sinning for sure and you won't have to worry about this question. Don't seek to do the minimum... You were made for Heaven, reach for Heaven... If we reach for Purgatory, what happens if we miss? I'm not saying you do this, and I'm not sure why you are asking this specific question, but just sharing some thoughts... God bless you! :)

[MarysLittleFlower]

Sorry I didn't at first realize that you were wondering this for an essay and then my response timed out! I thought this is a question that you were personally struggling with. I would recommend looking up St Alphonsus Liguori because he talked about vocations.., I'll try to find some links... In the end it's about love not fear but of course if we love God we will want His Will not ours. :) and I did read that it's more difficult to be saved if you resist a vocation so maybe that is something to research :)

[MarysLittleFlower]

I'm sorry I can't copy and paste on my device that I'm on right now but if you look up St Alphonsus Liguori's Vocation to the Religious State from a website called Saints Books, that should give some info :) putting it into a search engine should work... God bless you!

[4LoveofJMJ]

Actually this is something that I have been struggling with in the past so I am very interested in what you all have to say on this matter. :)

[rjzaar]

I've found this in Hans Urs von Balthasar's writings: http://books.google.com.au/books?id=rGvtagS_kq0C&pg=PA187&lpg=PA187&dq=%22Thus,+if+one+speaks+seriously,%22&source=bl&ots=cxKVM7TXj4&sig=5oM6uMWb5FHpRFmzLVj4GDvSPRo&hl=en&sa=X&ei=k6JFVJWhPMS3mwXK2IDQDw&ved=0CB0Q6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=%22Thus%2C%20if%20one%20speaks%20seriously%2C%22&f=false

[rjzaar]

It appears the rest of my post is missing so here it is: Which I think puts it very well. In other words responding to a call (which is called a counsel) is secondary to the command to Love. Our readiness to respond to the call is "of equal value to the actual taking of this path in obedience". Therefore the at times murky discernment we go through does not compare to our willingness (thirst) to do God's will in our whole life which is certain. Scruples should be dissolved in the infinite love of God who loves us unconditionally. That love trumps any mistakes real or imaginary that we might make and frees us to love him all the more and order our lives according to that love. As we come deeper into his love, we enter into a peace and stillness in which the promptings of the Holy Spirit become clearer, usually in the smaller things which gradually lead to the bigger things. Adoration I personally believe is really important as part of this process. If anyone has any other leads or suggestions I'm open to all spiritual and/or theological writers and what their understanding of the issues/concepts. Also thanks to MARYSLITTLEFLOWER for the lead to a useful quote. God Bless :)

[BarbTherese]

It is probably near on impossible to determine which is more important the vocational call or the universal call to every individual to a life of holiness.  Both are intertwined.  As to 'missing one's vocation'.  God never ceases to draw us to holiness offering all the Graces necessary for a life of holiness.  If missing or turning down a vocation and call from God has lasting negative consequences, then that invitation assumes something of a command and it denies the Doctrine of Reconciliation that God not only forgives, He forgets.  A vocation is nothing of a command, it is an invitation only.  And if God is somehow unhappy about one missing or turning down His invitation and intends to allow negativities in one's life because of it, it does make God somewhat rather petty.  If holiness becomes harder if one turns down or misses one's vocation, then one is really saying that God lessens the Graces He gives............and again, making Him somehow petty and even vindictive. Totally ridiculous theology to me.

If one misses or turns down a call and vocation, God continues to lead that person to holiness in every way and with all the Graces necessary and in that path or vocation which one does choose

[BarbTherese]

I might be wrong, but I don't think that The Church has ever taught that if one does not take up God's vocational invitation that there will be negative consequences in that person's life.  I know it occurs in some writings of the saints, but there is nothing infallible about such writings nor are we asked to believe the writings of saints - it is an optional matter.  When The Church publishes such writings, She is stating  that there is nothing contradicting Dogma or Doctrine.

Probably at one point in our history, missing one's vocation having negative consequences was a fairly general held matter in Catholic cultural consciousness and hence taken up by saints of that time.  Our cultural consciousness is not of necessity what The Church teaches, although one hopes that it is.

Edited October 23, 2014 by BarbaraTherese