Not To Disappoint You

[Tab'le De'Bah-Rye]

Ugh sounds like my experience with a couple of sisters from different orders at different periods. Once they found out that I was discerning, they were really pressuring me to drop everything and enter their convent despite my repeatedly telling them that I had only begun discernment. Plus I was way too young (14 or 15) to make any such decision. They did not take it very well. Unfortunately it took me a while to get over those experiences.

 

How do you get permission to discern for a community at 14 or 15, i thought we had to be 18, except in a very rare extraordinary case like st therese of liseux. And in my catholic corner you don't pressure no one for no vocation, can't even tell people they should get married, it's a shame game pressure, load of bollocks people that do that religious or not.

Edited October 20, 2014 by Tab'le De'Bah-Rye

[PhuturePriest]

lol you dork. :) Sounds it was a great learning experience for you overall. 

 

I'm looking at the online application to seminary on the Diocesan website. This looks like the most stressfully tedious thing a person can willingly and knowingly inflict upon themselves.

[4LoveofJMJ]

 

How do you get permission to discern for a community at 14 or 15, i thought we had to be 18, except in a very rare extraordinary case like st therese of liseux. And in my catholic corner you don't pressure no one for no vocation, can't even tell people they should get married, it's a shame game pressure, load of bollocks people that do that religious or not.

 

These were orders who have a high school aspirancy program. One was helping lead the conference I was going to and the other contacted me over facebook after I said I was discerning on a page. Now these things happened one right after another. I was a young girl who had never really seen religious sisters before and was not sure how to proceed. Having those two things happen like that made me think that God was trying to push me into the convent even though I was not ready. Made me resentful of him at times. Every time I thought of seeking advice from another religious sister, panic would well up inside of me. I have only gotten over it the past few years thankfully. Now I am just trying to figure out if really is my calling or not. Without the pressure.

[Gabriela]

I'm looking at the online application to seminary on the Diocesan website. This looks like the most stressfully tedious thing a person can willingly and knowingly inflict upon themselves.

 

Wait... What are you talking about? Didn't you just fill out the FAFSA?

[SilentJoy]

I was a young girl who had never really seen religious sisters before and was not sure how to proceed. Having those two things happen like that made me think that God was trying to push me into the convent even though I was not ready.

Well, I was an old girl who had never seen religious Sisters before and didn't know how to proceed. I was reluctant even to visit the community I was discerning with (although I did love them!), and with visiting information they sent application information as well; I assumed that was just how things were done. When I had a lot of doubt and misgiving, and had actually notified them that I'd decided to stop and wait another year to discern, I was encouraged to proceed anyway. When we mutually decided that it truly was time for me to stop, they encouraged me to keep in touch but never responded to me when I did. It seemed like they had lots of time to help me move forward when I wasn't ready to do so, and no time at all to help me deal with the aftermath or just to say "We're praying for you!" when they knew I was going through difficulties. I was relying on them to be a spiritual guide and lifeline, but it wasn't fair of me to expect them to fill that capacity. They didn't do anything wrong; this stuff just happens. Life happens. Religious life can be just as crappy as any other vocation. Don't put too much emphasis on other people when you're trying to determine God's will; even when they're doing their best, they're still just people, they aren't omniscient, they make mistakes (just like you and I do) and they may not know how you need to be helped.

 

Maybe I should give FP back his thread?

[blazeingstar]

These were orders who have a high school aspirancy program. One was helping lead the conference I was going to and the other contacted me over facebook after I said I was discerning on a page. Now these things happened one right after another. I was a young girl who had never really seen religious sisters before and was not sure how to proceed. Having those two things happen like that made me think that God was trying to push me into the convent even though I was not ready. Made me resentful of him at times. Every time I thought of seeking advice from another religious sister, panic would well up inside of me. I have only gotten over it the past few years thankfully. Now I am just trying to figure out if really is my calling or not. Without the pressure.

 

See, cases like this are when I really wish that the parallel lines between vocation and pursuing it were given between that and dating/marriage.  God has drawn so pretty powerful similarities, as can be seen between myself and a friend my age.  Both of us were unsure of our vocations, both of us made our first steps, inquiries in her case, dates in mine.  Both of us were rejected.  Both of us thought we found "the one" but then realized that something was very wrong with the other (in her case the order, in mine the man). 

 

Then, slowly, we found someone else.  She found an order that had the same level of interest in her that she did them, I found a man.   She entered the same month that I got engaged, and she has given her temp vows around the time I got married. 

 

So often people would ask me things about my emotions, life, and thoughts that they wouldn't ask her. 

 

Ironically, my best person helping guide me on my vocation has been a nun, and hers has been a woman married for decades.  God surely works in strange ways.

 

But my point was, those with vocations need to really ask if they are falling in love like they see in healthy friends' relationships.  I certainly asked myself if I was ready to commit to my (now husband) and give up everything (my home, my things, eventually my job if we have kids) as she was giving up her home, job and things.

[Slappo]

Which Carmel did you visit, and when you say "any book you wanted" do you mean "any spiritual book you wanted"?

I visited the discalced carmelite friars of the California-Arizona province.

 

I don't mean any spiritual book. They had a separate scheduled time for spiritual reading. During fiesta it was a time to rest, relax, and celebrate the day. Any book might be a bit excessive as there are certainly many books which could be harmful to the spiritual life, but what I intended was to say leisurely reading. Since you've vowed poverty, you would be limited to the books owned by the community.

[PhuturePriest]

I visited the discalced carmelite friars of the California-Arizona province.

 

I don't mean any spiritual book. They had a separate scheduled time for spiritual reading. During fiesta it was a time to rest, relax, and celebrate the day. Any book might be a bit excessive as there are certainly many books which could be harmful to the spiritual life, but what I intended was to say leisurely reading. Since you've vowed poverty, you would be limited to the books owned by the community.

 

One interesting thing about this community is that they aren't allowed to read any book which does not have authentic Catholic teaching or that disagrees with it, meaning even if you were writing a book on Protestantism and why it's wrong, you can't read books by Protestants in order to cite them and explain why you disagree with them. It seemed kind of excessive, in my opinion.

[Aragon]

One interesting thing about this community is that they aren't allowed to read any book which does not have authentic Catholic teaching or that disagrees with it, meaning even if you were writing a book on Protestantism and why it's wrong, you can't read books by Protestants in order to cite them and explain why you disagree with them. It seemed kind of excessive, in my opinion.

 

 

Weird. If anything I think it's really important that priests know and understand the various anti-Gospel ideologies out there in order to understand where non-Catholics are coming from and show them the truth.

[blazeingstar]

Weird. If anything I think it's really important that priests know and understand the various anti-Gospel ideologies out there in order to understand where non-Catholics are coming from and show them the truth.

 

We're talking about a closed community, right?  If so, its not really that strange to close off certain literature that's not in their focus.  There are some communities that are not about evangelize, but rather (as it seemed by FP's OP) on things like reparation.  I believe in this case it's considered "custody of the eyes" to not let the mind wander and be curious about the bad that other people are saying about the faith.

 

I know that there used to be (about 30 years ago) a huge charismatic revival in Boston....called the Upper Room or such....anyway, I digress.  In this group some were heavily focused on spiritual warfare.  One person felt that God was not calling him to do so, and instead to never focus on what the devil was doing but wholly focus on God.  So he stopped praying the St. Michael prayer and a few others, and completely focused on only prayers and adoration that was about God while being fully aware that there was a spiritual battle be trusting that God was fighting for Him.

 

So, I don't find it all that strange a community would have this as a rule of life.  It defiantly would greatly reduce the number of people called, but people are called to have utter and complete focus on only God and works that praise Him.  It happens.

[PhuturePriest]

We're talking about a closed community, right?  If so, its not really that strange to close off certain literature that's not in their focus.  There are some communities that are not about evangelize, but rather (as it seemed by FP's OP) on things like reparation.  I believe in this case it's considered "custody of the eyes" to not let the mind wander and be curious about the bad that other people are saying about the faith.

 

I know that there used to be (about 30 years ago) a huge charismatic revival in Boston....called the Upper Room or such....anyway, I digress.  In this group some were heavily focused on spiritual warfare.  One person felt that God was not calling him to do so, and instead to never focus on what the devil was doing but wholly focus on God.  So he stopped praying the St. Michael prayer and a few others, and completely focused on only prayers and adoration that was about God while being fully aware that there was a spiritual battle be trusting that God was fighting for Him.

 

So, I don't find it all that strange a community would have this as a rule of life.  It defiantly would greatly reduce the number of people called, but people are called to have utter and complete focus on only God and works that praise Him.  It happens.

 

Well, that was completely misguided and not in accordance with 2000 years of Catholic tradition.

[blazeingstar]

Well, that was completely misguided and not in accordance with 2000 years of Catholic tradition.

 

Errmmm no.  God has called people into certain acts and prayer.  He does it all the time.  If said person didn't say the prayers of renewal of Baptizimal vows at Easter, that'd be one thing, but not praying the St. Michaels prayer, not focusing on spiritual warfare is not "misguided".  I'm pretty sure God does say places in the Bible and tradition not to focus on the works of the devil.  He also indicates we should be aware of the spiritual battle.  The degree to which we are called to partake or abstain from this battle is up to God.

Edited October 21, 2014 by blazeingstar

[PhuturePriest]

Errmmm no.  God has called people into certain acts and prayer.  He does it all the time.  If said person didn't say the prayers of renewal of Baptizimal vows at Easter, that'd be one thing, but not praying the St. Michaels prayer, not focusing on spiritual warfare is not "misguided"

 

Um, no, it's misguided because by not putting any attention to Satan in the name of putting "full" attention on God, he completely rejected his what he was born for: "Catholics are born for combat." -- Pope Leo XIII We were made for spiritual warfare. It's kind of what we do down here.

Edited October 21, 2014 by FuturePacker

[Benedictus]

Many good points. But the attitude he had reflected that of the whole community, which I learned as I discussed it with the rest of them. Only one of them didn't argue that they preach more than Dominicans.

 

People don't really leave once they join, and people typically join once they visit. This is likely due to the fact that it is a very appealing community, but I fear also that it is due to a sort of pushy attitude. They gave an attitude of disbelief that there was anyone in the world who wasn't called to their community, and when I told them I didn't feel called there, they pretty much told me I was wrong and that once I thought about it hard I would realize I was.
 

And I looked into the Salesians about three or four years ago, actually. I even had a phone call with the vocation director, whom was a very wonderful and loving man. I didn't really look into their way of life, and I kind of forgot about them. I'll have to look into them again.

If a community claims to be good at everything and wants to adopt you to join them during the first visit, even when you say you don't feel it's working out, I'd be worried. I'm always wary of groups that would want me to join so quickly of their own free will! :hehe2:  

 

The Dominicans are great. If you love study, preaching, parish and outreach work it's great. In my country they don't so so much retreat work, they focus mostly on higher education, parish and chaplain work.
The Salesians are a mixed bag in my experience, in terms of their theology, but worth exploring if you love the idea of youth, teaching or parish work

 

[blazeingstar]

Um, no, it's misguided because by not putting any attention to Satan in the name of putting "full" attention on God, he completely rejected his what he was born for: "Catholics are born for combat." -- Pope Leo XIII We were made for spiritual warfare. It's kind of what we do down here.

 

So Pope Leo XII's words have more effort than the Bible?  Ummm no.  Else all contemplative Monasteries would be shut down.  There are many saints who in spiritual maturity turned their focus completely to God and rejected spiritual warfare as motus operendous.