Benedictus Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 Could you imagine if Kasper was Pope :I One thing we know won't never happen. If the reports are accurate Cardinal Carlo Maria Martini, also a Jesuit like Francis, was in the running after John Paul ll died. He was apparently only looked over because he began having symptoms of Parkinson's disease. He would probably make Kasper look like a Conservative! Kasper, Martini and Danneels, and others besides, were all of the reformist camp. I believe Martini said the church was at least one hundred years out of date and behind the times! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aragon Posted October 17, 2014 Author Share Posted October 17, 2014 (edited) His career appears to be over under our current pontiff. Personally, I fully believe Francis intends to resign in a few more years. Burke is young. Things may change. Cardinal Burke's pastoral guidance is very important right now. Honestly I don't think we'll see a liturgically high and theologically traditionalist-leaning Pope like Benedict for a long time. The old school form of Catholicism that Burke represents is a largely Western phenomena. For example, well over 90% of the Traditional Latin Masses are in Western countries, and even then most of them are in English speaking countries or France. The continents where the Church has some vitality - South America, Africa, and Asia - tend to be theologically moderate for the most part, conservative on sexual issues, and don't seem to show much interest in the liturgy wars of the West. I think the next Pope is going to be from Asia or Africa where things like 'the hermeneutic of continuity' or what way the priest is facing during Mass simply aren't important concerns. Edited October 17, 2014 by Aragon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 Or someone from Colombo, Sri Lanka. Or Asana, Kazakhstan. :| Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 Sorry Aragon, but I do not subscribe to the modern phenomenon that treats the Mass as subordinate to material troubles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aragon Posted October 17, 2014 Author Share Posted October 17, 2014 Sorry Aragon, but I do not subscribe to the modern phenomenon that treats the Mass as subordinate to material troubles. +Ranjith would be pretty good. I wouldn't be very happy with +Schneider. I didn't mean to say that the Mass is subordinate to social issues, but that the particular liturgical sensibilities that are associated with people like Card. Burke aren't seen as important issues in the places where the Church is growing. There's a big difference between saying the Mass isn't a top priority and saying that the language the Mass is offered in or the direction the priest faces isn't a top priority. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 And as I said, I disagree with the premise that liturgical authenticity is not critical in this day and age. Whether or not many disagree with me is immaterial. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Credo in Deum Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 +Ranjith would be pretty good. I wouldn't be very happy with +Schneider. I didn't mean to say that the Mass is subordinate to social issues, but that the particular liturgical sensibilities that are associated with people like Card. Burke aren't seen as important issues in the places where the Church is growing. There's a big difference between saying the Mass isn't a top priority and saying that the language the Mass is offered in or the direction the priest faces isn't a top priority. How do you separate the two? If the rubrics in the liturgy do a horrible job at conveying the realities of our faith then people won't take them seriously or bother believing them. I mean if we stress the Real Presence of Christ in the Eucharist but receive Him like He's a goldfish cracker what do you think will happen to this belief? As my Protestant friend remarked, "if you believe it's actually Christ, then why the casual reception as if what you're doing is no big thing?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truthfinder Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 +Ranjith would be pretty good. I wouldn't be very happy with +Schneider. I didn't mean to say that the Mass is subordinate to social issues, but that the particular liturgical sensibilities that are associated with people like Card. Burke aren't seen as important issues in the places where the Church is growing. There's a big difference between saying the Mass isn't a top priority and saying that the language the Mass is offered in or the direction the priest faces isn't a top priority. You just opened a huge can of worms, which might need to go to the debate thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slappo Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 Yes it is. Maybe in some cases, but not all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ice_nine Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 Yes it is. You might want to qualify that statement. There are a number of legitimate reasons to cut off family members, especially with children involved, even reasons that fall outside of "direct material harm:, that you'd agree with. Think hard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
puellapaschalis Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 If loving, caring for and looking after others were at least as important as the liturgy, it would have been the first commandment, not the second. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aragon Posted October 17, 2014 Author Share Posted October 17, 2014 If loving, caring for and looking after others were at least as important as the liturgy, it would have been the first commandment, not the second. The first commandment isn't about liturgy either. Sure, you'll say that we express our love for God through the liturgy, but we also express our love for God through "loving, caring for, and looking after others". In fact that's how God asked us to express our love for Him ;)! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aragon Posted October 17, 2014 Author Share Posted October 17, 2014 Also y'all are missing my point. I'm not arguing about whether the trad liturgy wars are important or not, I'm saying that I think the next Pope will be from Asia or Africa and in those two continents very few people are concerned with that kind of thing, as evidenced by the near complete absence of the TLM in those places. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
puellapaschalis Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 The first commandment isn't about liturgy either. Sure, you'll say that we express our love for God through the liturgy, but we also express our love for God through "loving, caring for, and looking after others". In fact that's how God asked us to express our love for Him ;)! Hardly. The first commandment talks about loving God, and loving God (as opposed to someone else) is about worshipping Him and giving Him the honour due to Him (insofar as we are able). Clergy from non-Western parts of the world might be more preoccupied with social causes because a) they are dealing with real social causes, unlike Team Kasper, and b) their attitude to liturgy isn't ridden with a Modernist cancer as it mainly is in the West. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Credo in Deum Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 The first commandment isn't about liturgy either. Sure, you'll say that we express our love for God through the liturgy, but we also express our love for God through "loving, caring for, and looking after others". In fact that's how God asked us to express our love for Him ;)! The Liturgy encompasses both commandments 1) To love God with all our mind, body and soul and 2) to love your neighbor as yourself. The Mass is the only time we can give God the level worship He is due. You can take all of the charitable acts of all mankind that have been done and will be done, and they still would not be as beneficial to mankind as one Mass. How we celebrate Mass does matter. A lot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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