Synod

[superblue]

http://www.npr.org/2014/10/05/353839373/vatican-synod-tests-the-popes-vision-of-a-more-merciful-church

 

Some quotes from this article that i am focusing on,

 

 

 

the last first,  The outcome will not only affect issues of sexual ethics, contraception and divorce. It will ultimately determine the Catholic Church's relationship with the modern world.

 

 

I can understand debating sexual ethics, and reaffirming why holding a stance against contraception is important or perhaps debating discussion exceptions, but why talk about divorce, less the discussion is in regards to the annulment process ? Why are divorced Catholics feeling shunned ?

 

 

"Married people need to be heard," he says. "Gay people and their struggles need to be heard. Single mothers need to be heard. It won't do for a bunch of celibate men, so-called, to be parsimonious with God's mercy."

 

To this extent I am wondering why do they feel they are not being heard ? Is the reference in regards to the groaning and moaning of what society is telling them is okay and it is in conflict with church teaching ? And why are single mothers being singled out ?

 

"He saw that lots of people were living together who weren't married, lots of families broke up because of poverty or other issues. He saw the real world out there and as a pastor, he wants to respond to that."

 

This i have witnessed first hand too, with in the homeless community, men and women living together as a couple who are more than likely not even legally married, but are together out of love, and survival,  I found an off comment one time, that i might have mentioned once, when i heard a fellow volunteer comment how he felt sorry for a homeless couple who where " living in sin " referencing living as a couple not married in the church...I don't know how the synod expects to approach the quoted subject but I am interested to see what comes of it.

 

But no topic has become more heated in the lead-up to the debate than suggestions made by Cardinal Walter Kasper, the pope's favorite theologian, on the possibility — on a case-by-case basis — of divorced and remarried Catholics receiving communion.

 

I don't know about anyone else but this comment, seems like it isn't that Divorced and or remarried Catholics can not recieve communion they can through an annulment,  so wouldn't it be better to discuss, the Annulment process itself, vs just labeling this as if divorced and remarried catholics are being shunned by the Church. And to then Talk about how to strengthen the Sacrament of Marriage and marriage courses etc .

 

 

Catholic Church Reform International, an umbrella organization of progressive groups from all over the world, met last week in one of Rome's baroque churches.

"Pope Francis has told bishops we want to hear from the people, we want dialogue, dialogue, dialogue," says Director Rene Reid from Reno, Nev. "But there is one thing he didn't do: He didn't set up a mechanism for this to happen. So the bishops are going their merry way."

Reid says her group has come to ask for some basic changes.

 

I gag and steer clear of anything with the label of " progressive " talk about subliminal coding and a hidden agenda,

 

"We would like to see the birth control issue revisited," she says. "We'd like to see celibacy become an option. We'd like to see greater respect and equality given to women."

 

Who ever this person is who made this comment isn't doing anyone any favors as I think this is nothing more than a coded wording for getting onboard and accepting abortion,  If we are to go forth and multiply , exactly where does birth control fit in, less one wants to discuss over population and the need to prevent third world countries from reproducing because they will just spread disease and poverty ?

 

And Celibacy is a non issue, the ones i see complaining about it are in a fraction of a percentage, if anything bring up the topic of dispensantion and making it easier to be processed if it is too difficult at the moment.  Considering no one is forcing a man to enter into the priesthood, and that everyone knows full n well what promises are to be made once one is ordained, exactly why is this still an issue ?

 

And Greater Respect and Equality given to women ? add nausia ....... Exactly how are Catholic women or women in general not being respected and not being given equality ? Answer, it is bs, and merely another coded language for females being introduced into the priesthood. Women play just as an important role in the Church as Men do, and anyone who doesn't fall into this " progressive bs mind set " knows it as well.

 

 

I do realize this article is most likely slanted to some degree, but i suspect the topics it suggests will be discussed is accurate,  just interested in thoughts on the matter as there has been a lot going on in reporting on the Pope lately and the Vatican and there has been zero commenting.....

[An Historian]

I believe that this Synod will be the beginning of the testing moment for the Church.  Within a year the promise of Christ that the gates of hell shall not prevail will be tested against the the ravaging beast that is the modern world.

[superblue]

I believe that this Synod will be the beginning of the testing moment for the Church.  Within a year the promise of Christ that the gates of hell shall not prevail will be tested against the the ravaging beast that is the modern world.

 

 

I wouldn't of said it as dramatic as that ,but i can agree, it seems more of a test, modern world vs the Church. Don't know what ya mean by with in a year, less you are trying to suggest the end times, which there is a snow balls chance in hell of that happening any time soon. I'd be too lucky to have that happen at the moment.

[An Historian]

This Synod is an extraordinary Synod which is in preparation for the Ordinary Synod next year.  So within a year there will be an answer to the test.  I am scared, I think it's natural for a man to be scared at times like these.  But we must have faith, and I'm going to take a leap of faith and trust God.  Either the Synod will reject the Kasperite proposals, or they'll accept them and recommend them to the pope, and he'll reject them, or he'll accept them and God will make sure that he does not act on them.  It wouldn't be the first time, after all.  There was once a pope that tried to dogmatically rule on the grace controversey between the Thomists, Molinists and Congruists.  He didn't succeed.

[Nihil Obstat]

This is a very, very dangerous time. There are those attending the synod, and I am sure many who are not attending, who are actively attempting to undermine Church teaching.

God's will cannot be avoided, and the gates of hell cannot prevail, but we could have a very difficult fight ahead of us if things go poorly.

[superblue]

This is a very, very dangerous time. There are those attending the synod, and I am sure many who are not attending, who are actively attempting to undermine Church teaching.

God's will cannot be avoided, and the gates of hell cannot prevail, but we could have a very difficult fight ahead of us if things go poorly.

 

 

You actually think we have leaders in the Church who are trying to undermind her  ? Why, or whom would you point too that gives you concern ?

 

so Nih and An,  you two are not happy about the Synod it seems,  I personally find it odd to even be taking place, do either of you not find it odd, or expected it , or what,   I for one, either way this goes, do not expect everyone to agree to what ever answers may come, for a few reasons, some emotional, pride, and arrogance that everyone deals with, thinking our opinions may be the better one than a leader, be it on the job, in the military or in our police force.... the other is ,  the Pope has been calling for a humbler / Church,  has anyone really seen their bishop embrace the call ? From things done in the past that are now being done in what the Pope has been preaching... and asking for... i look at what the Pope has been saying as more indirect orders to a degree anyhow.

 

But changes are hard to get moving forward, and enforce, from what i understand not everything that was established in V2 has yet been put into practice,,, what they are i couldn't say.

 

 

And a " grace  contraversy " ?

 

Why in the world would Grace ever be a controversy , seems more like reason to start an arguement more than anything. but anyhow.

 

 

 

Um okay, so what are the Best and Worst things that could take place from this question and answer Synod, seems a better way to label the two different Synods, Question / Answer ( not fansy though i know )

[Nihil Obstat]

You actually think we have leaders in the Church who are trying to undermind her  ? Why, or whom would you point too that gives you concern ?

 

 

Cardinal Kasper seems at least to be the figurehead of that particular faction. His recent interviews have been poison.

[Aragon]

Look, on the one hand you can worry and think that this Synod might cause a massive rift in the Church and lead to round two of the conservative vs. liberal culture wars that have torn the Church apart since the Council. I personally think that Kasper's proposal will be rejected quickly. 

 

On the other hand it's no secret that the Church hasn't done a very good job at presenting the Gospel of the Family - approaches seem to range from pretending it doesn't exist (dissent) to fixating on issues of sexual morality and making them the litmus test of Catholicity. Neither approach has worked. This Synod might actually help us to present the teachings of the Church on these issues to society in a way that is simultaneously faithful to the magisterium while also being intelligible to contemporary man in a way that expresses the love and mercy of Christ.

Edited October 6, 2014 by Aragon

[superblue]

Look, on the one hand you can worry and think that this Synod might cause a massive rift in the Church and lead to round two of the conservative vs. liberal culture wars that have torn the Church apart since the Council. I personally think that Kasper's proposal will be rejected quickly. 

 

On the other hand it's no secret that the Church hasn't done a very good job at presenting the Gospel of the Family - approaches seem to range from pretending it doesn't exist (dissent) to fixating on issues of sexual morality and making them the litmus test of Catholicity. Neither approach has worked. This Synod might actually help us to present the teachings of the Church on these issues to society in a way that is simultaneously faithful to the magisterium while also being intelligible to contemporary man in a way that expresses the love and mercy of Christ.

The bold, i guess we could say this is the good we hope comes from this Synod,

 

The Ital, i can agree it should not be a litmus test of ones faith, but it doesn't seem like it can be ignored either, if on the one hand hypothetically the end of this was okay we decided the Church shouldnt be telling what people can and can't do in regards to their sexual life, or not saying anything on it and just brushing the topic under the rug, Could either of those in turn be looked at by Some as a hey look the Church is just looking the other way so we dont really have to believe we need to actually wait till marriage to engage in sex, more over we don't need to worry about exactly how many partners we engage in sex with before marriage.

 

 

I have no idea who Kasper is or what he is proposing but i imagine if one person is up to date on him and the proposal and disagrees with it then there will be others in the chain of command who already feel the same way.....

 

Seems the focus might be better off focused on how to fight back against what society in America is teaching us, have sex with whom ever when ever, do it safely use a condom, if you get pregnant dont worry you can have an abortion since it is your body and your choice..... along with a plethra of other issues like how marijuana is being legalized in a few states.... BUT DONT SMOKE CIGARETTES !

 

 

Maybe the Church needs to focus on fundraising to be able to buy commerical spots on Tv, 30 second - 2 minute commericals, that are informative, pop up a website to address on how to get help on abortion, what ever other stuff.... heck how about a super bowl ad , lol which those are friggin insanely expensive to get, but could you imagine if the Church managed that;

[LouisvilleFan]

I have no idea. Seems like this synod is kind of a big deal, but I haven't heard much about it outside of the prayer cards our pastor gave the parish. It's probably a good thing that our bishops are finally paying attention to the real vocation crisis.

 

Of course, like Congress, bishops getting their hands in stuff is definitely a double-edged sword.