The Church And The Culture Wars

[Aragon]

It is a negative thing when the Church becomes too caught up in the culture wars on issues like abortion, gay marriage, and contraception. It distracts from the main message of the Church - which is Christ's love for all and His call to discipleship. To quote Pope Francis "the missionary proclamation consists firstly of the Good News, and from this the moral consequences flow".

Discuss.

[Not The Philosopher]

It is regrettable that for the most part when Christianity is discussed in the public sphere, it is in the context of these issues. But I tend to find that it is the secular world more than the Church that really likes to bang on them and center the conversation around them.

[An Historian]

The Church does not exist in a vacuum.  We are a part of the world, just not [i]of[/i] the world.  And being a part of the world means that we have to get involved in our socieities.  Abortion, homosexual marriage, and artificial contraception are all issues which severely effect the working of our socieities and are a direct assault on the family unit.  And without the family, there is no Church.

These are battles that must be fought.  Not at the expense of the mission Christ gave His Church, but because of that mission.

[LaPetiteSoeur]

I do think it is a negative thing, but more because of the actions that are taken from those messages. When the Church talks about life issues it too often circles ONLY around abortion and fetal stem cell research. The solutions are to...pray and protest in front of facilities which provide those things. Rarely are the other issues around those hot-button issues discussed. Why do many women receive abortions? Money issues, don't know how they will work, don't feel prepared to be moms, didn't use protection...whatever the case. Instead of supporting mothers after children are born and working to help mothers and babies and fathers live productive lives and support themselves, the focus is only on stopping the act of abortion.

 

It's as though the Church takes the easy way...talking about it, protesting. The hard part is making policies in the country that would make childrearing and childbearing easier on the whole family and would strengthen marriages. Working for those types of policies would be an amazing effort by the faithful because they have shown that they feel strongly about life issues. However, praying, protesting, and clinics for counseling are all that seem to happen from this strength. 

[An Historian]

It is principally by prayer that these issues will be resolved.  Five faithful Catholics praying the rosary out side of an abortion clinic will accomplish more than five hundred Catholics lobbying on social reforms.  Prayer is the cornerstone of all Catholic activity.  Of course we cannot forget the social issues that drive women to these clinics.  We should be campaigning to provide adequate services to young mothers, we should be providing young men with the education and the living wage necessary to provide for a family.  But I would not tolerate a single Hail Mary being diverted from those prayer groups to lobby for those reforms.

Because that single Hail Mary is what will turn the day.

[Aragon]

The Church does not exist in a vacuum.  We are a part of the world, just not of the world.  And being a part of the world means that we have to get involved in our socieities.  Abortion, homosexual marriage, and artificial contraception are all issues which severely effect the working of our socieities and are a direct assault on the family unit.  And without the family, there is no Church.

These are battles that must be fought.  Not at the expense of the mission Christ gave His Church, but because of that mission.

 

Sure, the Church doesn't exist in a vacuum, but that doesn't change the fact that Christ's command to the Church is to "make disciples" not "make sure marriage stays between a man and a woman". I'm not advocating for a change to the latter, but simply pointing out that when the public face of the Church is so often about 'below the belt' issues it distracts from our proclamation of Christ.

 

The sad reality is that if you talk to unChurched people and ask them what they associate with the Catholic Church they'll almost invariably mention 1) the sex abuse scandal, 2) Contraception/homosexuality/abortion. If that's what the Catholic Church is known for then I think there's a serious problem. 

Edited October 4, 2014 by Aragon

[An Historian]

Sure, the Church doesn't exist in a vacuum, but that doesn't change the fact that Christ's command to the Church is to "make disciples" not "make sure marriage stays between a man and a woman". I'm not advocating for a change to the latter, but simply pointing out that when the public face of the Church is so often about 'below the belt' issues it distracts from our proclamation of Christ.

 

The sad reality is that if you talk to unChurched people and ask them what they associate with the Catholic Church they'll almost invariably mention 1) the sex abuse scandal, 2) Contraception/homosexuality/abortion. If that's what the Catholic Church is known for then I think there's a serious problem. 

 

Yes, we are to make disciples of all nations.  Educating men and women on moral and well-ordered sexuality is a part of that commission.  Who is a disciple of Christ?  Is it simply being baptised and showing up at Mass on Sunday?  What sort of disciples are we trying to make, exactly?  And if we continue to let society throw itself over the cliff's edge then who exactly will be the future of the Church?  Pregnancy is treated like a disease, and a contraceptive mentality has already opened western society up to a host of both spiritual and utilitarian illnesses.  Tackling those "below the belt" issues is proclaiming Christ, because it is bringing Christ and His message to the most intimate of all human issues.  If there is not a Christocentric basis in one's sexuality then everything else will fall as a house built on sand.

 

But I do agree that we Catholics can better express the Church's teachings on these issues.

 

And only a few generations ago Catholics were all viewed as lazy alcoholics who took their marching orders from Rome, and before that people were saying we were cannibals.  Should we then have less focus on the Most Holy Eucharist?

[Aragon]

Yes, we are to make disciples of all nations.  Educating men and women on moral and well-ordered sexuality is a part of that commission.  Who is a disciple of Christ?  Is it simply being baptised and showing up at Mass on Sunday?  What sort of disciples are we trying to make, exactly?  And if we continue to let society throw itself over the cliff's edge then who exactly will be the future of the Church?  Pregnancy is treated like a disease, and a contraceptive mentality has already opened western society up to a host of both spiritual and utilitarian illnesses.  Tackling those "below the belt" issues is proclaiming Christ, because it is bringing Christ and His message to the most intimate of all human issues.  If there is not a Christocentric basis in one's sexuality then everything else will fall as a house built on sand.

 

But I do agree that we Catholics can better express the Church's teachings on these issues.

 

And only a few generations ago Catholics were all viewed as lazy alcoholics who took their marching orders from Rome, and before that people were saying we were cannibals.  Should we then have less focus on the Most Holy Eucharist?

 

I definitely agree that part of the commission to make disciples includes teaching proper sexual morality, but perhaps that's more a matter of catechesis (internal to the Church) rather than evangelisation. Shouldn't one begin with the very basics such as God's existence, the Incarnation, the call to discipleship, etc, when engaging with a largely unbelieving public?

I think that's what the Pope meant when he said that the missionary proclamation begins with the good news and the moral precepts follow. Leading with sexual morality is putting the cart before the horse. 

 

But I do agree that we Catholics can better express the Church's teachings on these issues.

 

 

Could you please expand on this a little more? How do you think the Church is currently expressing her teaching on these issues and how could it be improved?

 

Good points about the issues from a few generations ago. I hadn't thought of that.

[Norseman82]

Well, St. Paul did write to the church in Corinth that a little leaven affects the whole dough and for that reason to get rid of the open immorality in their midst. 

[Socrates]

It is a negative thing when the Church becomes too caught up in the culture wars on issues like abortion, gay marriage, and contraception. It distracts from the main message of the Church - which is Christ's love for all and His call to discipleship. To quote Pope Francis "the missionary proclamation consists firstly of the Good News, and from this the moral consequences flow".

Discuss.

 

1) The so-called “culture wars” are not just about “culture,” but about fundamental moral principles which are under aggressive attack in today’s society. 

 

Defending these moral principles (the sanctity of human life, the meaning of marriage and human sexuality, etc.) when they are under public attack by government policy and social-political agendas does not distract from Christ’s message, but is a fundamental part of it.

The Church’s moral teachings against abortion, contraception, and homosexual behavior are not some recent invention, but have been part of Church teaching from the beginning.

When these moral principles are under such widespread, aggressive and public attack in society, it is the duty of the Church to defend them and speak the truth.

You can’t separate the Gospel of Christ from Christian moral teaching.  (Christ Himself said, “if you love Me, keep My commands.”)  For Church leaders to deliberately avoid teaching and defending moral truth in these areas to avoid upsetting people, would be to for them to fail in their Gospel mission.

 

 

2) If you mean to imply that the Church speaks out excessively against abortion, contraception, and homosexual “marriage,” to the exclusion of the rest of the Christian message, you are simply wrong.

 

While recent Popes (including Francis) have made strong statements on these topics, if you have any familiarity with their writings and statements, you will know it is far from the only thing they preach about.  Similarly with the bishops (though in this country, they’ve actually made very little public statements regarding contraception prior to the Obamacare mandate).

 

I now attend a very conservative “Trad” FSSP parish, and while the priests proclaim the Church’s teachings on these topics strongly and clearly, they hardly talk about these issues 24/7, most sermons being on other spiritual and moral topics.

 

And from what I hear, in the majority of parishes in this country, priests never mention these “controversial” moral topics at all from the pulpit, for fear of upsetting people.  When 98% or so of Catholics disagree with or are ignorant of the Church’s teachings on contraception, there’s a problem, and it’s not that contraception is being preached on too much.

 

Christ’s love and call to discipleship is actually preached all the time by the Church.  It’s the (hostile) secular media that chooses to focus only on its teachings on abortion and homosexuality, because they oppose its own liberal political agenda.

 

 

While I don’t know exactly where you’re coming from on this, in my experience people who complain that the Church focuses too much on these “culture war” moral issues usually have an issue with them, and want the Church to either change its teachings on these things, or else shut up about them altogether.

 

If the Church only speaks out on moral teachings which happen to be currently popular or politically correct, it becomes a very weak moral witness in the world.

Edited October 7, 2014 by Socrates

[Socrates]

Sure, the Church doesn't exist in a vacuum, but that doesn't change the fact that Christ's command to the Church is to "make disciples" not "make sure marriage stays between a man and a woman". I'm not advocating for a change to the latter, but simply pointing out that when the public face of the Church is so often about 'below the belt' issues it distracts from our proclamation of Christ.

 

The sad reality is that if you talk to unChurched people and ask them what they associate with the Catholic Church they'll almost invariably mention 1) the sex abuse scandal, 2) Contraception/homosexuality/abortion. If that's what the Catholic Church is known for then I think there's a serious problem. 

 

Such people are not listening to what the Church says at all, but to the secular media.

It's not the fault of the Church. that the media only focuses on sexual issues and abortion.

 

The sex abuse scandal results from the actions of evil churchmen, but really has nothing to do with Church teaching on sexuality and abortion (other than that those guilty are acting opposed to moral sexual teaching).

 

 

I definitely agree that part of the commission to make disciples includes teaching proper sexual morality, but perhaps that's more a matter of catechesis (internal to the Church) rather than evangelisation. Shouldn't one begin with the very basics such as God's existence, the Incarnation, the call to discipleship, etc, when engaging with a largely unbelieving public?

I think that's what the Pope meant when he said that the missionary proclamation begins with the good news and the moral precepts follow. Leading with sexual morality is putting the cart before the horse. 

 

 

 

Where are you getting your information on what the Church teaches to the public?  The Church says plenty about God's existence, the Incarnation, etc.  Whether people choose to  listen is another matter.

 

How is the Church "leading" with sexual morality in its teaching, when so many priests rarely or never mention it in their preaching?

 

Are you saying the Church should just shut up regarding "controversial" things such as abortion?

[Aragon]

Hi Socrates,

No, I'm not saying the Church should shut up about those issues. I'm just pointing out that if you speak to your average non-Catholic the first things they associate with Catholicism are the hot button moral issues (at least in my experience). I think this is a real tragedy because the Church is so much more than that and in my experience when people have this negative impression of the Church as being fixated on these issues it makes them unreceptive to hearing about the core message of Christianity. 

You might not think that there are people in the Church who talk about gay marriage and abortion too much to the detriment of the missionary proclamation. That's your opinion and you're entitled to it. However I disagree with it, and if his comments about it not being necessary to be "obsessed" with these issues is anything to go by then the Holy Father disagrees with it too. 

[Socrates]

Hi Socrates,

No, I'm not saying the Church should shut up about those issues. I'm just pointing out that if you speak to your average non-Catholic the first things they associate with Catholicism are the hot button moral issues (at least in my experience). I think this is a real tragedy because the Church is so much more than that and in my experience when people have this negative impression of the Church as being fixated on these issues it makes them unreceptive to hearing about the core message of Christianity. 

 

Well, it's good you at least agree the Church is right to speak out on controversial issues.

 

The issue is that "your average non-Catholic" in this case is not getting his information on the Catholic Faith from the Church or Catholics, but from the secular media, which for the most part is not interested in giving unbiased truth about the Faith, but in political controversy and attacking "conservatives."

 

The media is chiefly interested in "hot-button" issues, because they relate to current political controversy.  That is not the fault of the Church or of orthodox Catholics, who are right to speak the truth about contested moral issues.

 

Basically, it's like this:

The Church and its leaders speak out about the love of Christ, the call to discipleship, the importance of prayer, charity towards neighbor, organizes food drives and runs soup kitchens, and prays for world peace:

The reaction of the media/secular society: zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

 

A Catholic bishop/priest/nun makes a statement affirming the Church's moral teachings against abortion or "gay marriage":

The reaction of the media/secular society: OMFG!  THE CHURCH IS OBSESSED WITH SEX!!!!!

 

Also, you presume that the the Church's moral teachings will give every non-Catholic a negative view of Catholicism.  While the Church's teachings do go against the grain of our increasingly depraved society, there are non-Catholics who may actually respect the Church's uncompromised teachings with regards to the sacredness of life and the meaning of marriage and sexual morality.

Being receptive to the Christian message will also involve a rejection of immorality.

 

 

You might not think that there are people in the Church who talk about gay marriage and abortion too much to the detriment of the missionary proclamation. That's your opinion and you're entitled to it. However I disagree with it, and if his comments about it not being necessary to be "obsessed" with these issues is anything to go by then the Holy Father disagrees with it too. 

 

 

I'm sure there are individuals in the Church who may focus unduly on these issues to the exclusion of all else, but this isn't true of the Church as a whole, and certainly not in its leadership (popes, bishops, parish priests).  A far, far bigger problem in the Church is self-proclaimed Catholics who ignore or outright reject the Church's moral teachings.

 

Even in my ultra-conservative Latin Mass parish, there are only one or two homilies a year focused chiefly on each of those "hot button" issues, and in many non-trad parishes, such things are rarely or never mentioned.  (When was the last time you heard a sermon preached against contraception, for instance?)

 

I frankly found Pope Francis' off-hand "obsessed" comments odd, and not really accurate of the Church, at least in this country (maybe things are different in Argentina or wherever - I can't say).  Popes John Paul II and Benedict certainly thought such issues needed to be addressed, and they had no less authority.

 

We in the Church could definitely be more zealous in evangelizing others about Christ, but I don't think the Church as a whole needs to speak out less against the moral evils you've mentioned.  The problem isn't too much speaking out on "hot-button" moral issues, but general lukewarmness.

 

 

You list abortion among the "hot button" "culture war" issues, yet this is about nothing less that the slaughter of innocent human life, something which ought to be spoken out against strongly and clearly.

Liberals like to condemn Pope Pius XII for "not speaking out enough" against the Nazi Holocaust of the Jews (despite the fact that in reality, he helped save many Jews from death).  However, at the same time they accuse Popes and members of the Church today of speaking out too much against abortion.

 

Moral truth should be the basis of what the Church speaks out about, not political correctness, or fear of offending people.