Ash Wednesday Posted June 10, 2004 Share Posted June 10, 2004 *hack* *cough* *cough* *cou-[b]cromwell[/b]-gh* *cough* *cough* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the lumberjack Posted June 10, 2004 Share Posted June 10, 2004 [quote name='Paladin D' date='Jun 10 2004, 01:26 PM'] These good points that Al brought up... And the Catholic.com link VeraMaria has posted, dealing with this issue. [/quote] oh, you mean pointing the finger in another direction, at other events, to detract and distract from this one? like catching you fresh after you kill someone and you saying, "Well Charles Manson killed WAAAY more people than I did!!!" you mean those points? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dUSt Posted June 10, 2004 Share Posted June 10, 2004 Okay, can we get a summary from the non-Catholics in this thread then? What exactly is your point? In a sentence, what is it that this thread is trying to prove? Paraphrase. What should us Catholics take from this thread. Why was it posted? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironmonk Posted June 10, 2004 Share Posted June 10, 2004 lumb, jack, Do you have any idea how you make yourselves look when you don't listen to both sides? Not just how you look to Catholics who know their faith, but to non-Catholics as well. There's a book called "Salvation at Stake" by a non-Catholic Harvard Professor. I think you both should read it. The Inquisition has never been closed... only a name change. There were mutiple inquisitions, and it was not the Church who did any of the killing. All the killings were done by civil governements. Every government was guilty of it, Catholic and non-Catholic... the Catholic Church was not guilty of it. Just as there are priests who go against Church teaching, during the Spanish Inquisition there were a couple bishops who went against the teaching. Why does that supprise anyone or what does that prove? Nothing. Judas was an Apostle and he fell, bishops fall too sometimes.... but the Church that Christ built always stands, like a Rock.... 2000 years.... The Catholic Church. If you want, I can send you the lecture files of my philosophy class so it will help you understand better what a sound argument is. Also, please go to the Catholic.com link above, and here are a few others.... [url="http://ic.net/~erasmus/RAZ247.HTM"]THE PROTESTANT INQUISITION - "Reformation" Intolerance and Persecution [/url] [url="http://ic.net/~erasmus/RAZ345.HTM#30)%20Inquisition%20and%20Crusades"]Inquisition and Crusades [/url] [url="http://www.chnetwork.org/daconv.htm"]How Newman Convinced me of the Apostolicity of the Catholic Church [/url] [url="http://www.catholic-pages.com/dir/inquisition.asp"]Spanish Inquisition[/url] [url="http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/08026a.htm"]Inquisition - Catholic Encyclopedia[/url] Ignorance is not bliss guys... God Bless, ironmonk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VeraMaria Posted June 10, 2004 Share Posted June 10, 2004 Did you even TRY reading the website I posted? It touches on many points you mentioned? Do you want me to copy paste? [url="http://www.catholic.com/library/Inquisition.asp"]http://www.catholic.com/library/Inquisition.asp[/url] Here's another one: "The Catholic Inquisition: Fact vs. Fiction [url="http://www.catholicculture.org/docs/doc_view.cfm?recnum=647"]http://www.catholicculture.org/docs/doc_view.cfm?recnum=647[/url] (if that wont load try [url="http://www.catholic.net/Catholic Church/Periodicals/Dossier/1112-96/article2.html"]http://www.catholic.net/Catholic Church/Periodicals/Do...6/article2.html[/url] ) Just look here if you really are interested in finding out for yourself: [url="http://ic.net/~erasmus/RAZ421.HTM#Inquisition(s)%20and%20Persecutions"]http://ic.net/~erasmus/RAZ421.HTM#Inquisit...%20Persecutions[/url] lots of info right there God Bless! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VeraMaria Posted June 10, 2004 Share Posted June 10, 2004 oops, sorry ironmonk, we posted at the same time! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Adam Posted June 10, 2004 Share Posted June 10, 2004 [quote]MORE *prone TO??* !! Like just WHEN is TORTURE warranted? More prone to....argh. I guess a LITTLE torture for those who WANT TO WORSHIP God without the Catholic Church is just fine. Argh.[/quote] Sacrificing infants to pagan gods usually lead to the death penalty during the inquisition when the Catholic Church held some political power. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the lumberjack Posted June 10, 2004 Share Posted June 10, 2004 ummm...I'm sorry, I didn't know that I had said ANYTHING that was even trying to prove a point... but thanks for reproving me before the thought crossed my mind. God bless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce S Posted June 10, 2004 Author Share Posted June 10, 2004 (edited) Iron, are you Torquemada reincarnated? [That might be why I have called you the IRON MAIDEN in times past?] Honestly, some days I think you just might be... I can't get over this one. People DEFENDING the Inquisition. Oh well, good thing we live in a Protestant nation I guess. Smooch. Edited June 10, 2004 by Bruce S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Livin_the_MASS Posted June 10, 2004 Share Posted June 10, 2004 [b]What is the point of this thread?[/b] Wooden Beam come at ya! And Bruce lets show a little more respect towards others instead of smooch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aloysius Posted June 10, 2004 Share Posted June 10, 2004 Did you read my entire post? Did you see where I said the Church is held to a higher standard than the rest of the world, so even if it was a better system than every other system around at the time period (ESPECIALLY the protestant countrys' religious courts) we STILL SHOULD apologize, and that's exactly what we've done! Do you realize that they gave penances most of the time, that torture and execution was rare. EVEN THOUGH IT WAS RARE, HOWEVER, THE CHURCH IS CALLED TO A HIGHER STANDARD, we must apologize, it was dispicable that torture happened. So we are SORRY that men are sinful and men in the Church used the Church to further their agendas sometimes causing torture and murder. But the fact remains, the Inquisition Courts were a step in history towards FAIRER court systems. People blasphemed so they could escape the secular courts and be tried in the Inquisition courts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce S Posted June 10, 2004 Author Share Posted June 10, 2004 I don't know how to say SMOOCH in Latin Jason, sorry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironmonk Posted June 10, 2004 Share Posted June 10, 2004 [quote name='Bruce S' date='Jun 10 2004, 05:21 PM'] Iron, are you Torquemada reincarnated? [That might be why I have called you the IRON MAIDEN in times past?] Honestly, some days I think you just might be... I can't get over this one. People DEFENDING the Inquisition. Oh well, good thing we live in a Protestant nation I guess. Smooch. [/quote] No one is defending the killing of people. It was wrong that CIVIL governments killed people for what they believed. It was NOT the Catholic Church's fault... to say it was is to show ignorance. Why not read what was written and actually read the articles, you would see that NO ONE is defending the killing of people. Like I said... do you have any idea the way you make yourselves look when you don't read? It's a shame you don't know Christ, if you did, you would read the links, listen to both sides, and then make a decission, but you don't... you just judge what you don't know. -ironmonk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the lumberjack Posted June 10, 2004 Share Posted June 10, 2004 [quote]you just judge what you don't know.[/quote] looks like you're doing what you're accusing us of doing... I don't know Christ? you don't know me. but its all good...I still pray for you ironmonk. God bless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce S Posted June 10, 2004 Author Share Posted June 10, 2004 Sorry Iron, don't see anywhere where Jesus instructed turning over BELIEVERS to civil authorities for torture, murder, and confiscation of properties. I must have a different New Testament than you are using. Jhn 13:34 A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Jhn 13:35 By this shall all [men] know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Jhn 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Jhn 14:21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Jhn 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Jhn 14:31 But that the world may know that I love the Father; and as the Father gave me commandment, even so I do. Arise, let us go hence. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Jhn 15:9 As the Father hath loved me, so have I loved you: continue ye in my love. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Jhn 15:10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Jhn 15:12 This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Jhn 15:13 Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Jhn 15:17 These things I command you, that ye love one another. What verses should I look to Iron for the SMITE your fellow Christian? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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