Theologians, Smart Folk, Etc

[ReformationNow]

Okay, at youth meeting tonight, one of the guys brought up a question that was brought to him by a self-declared 'Pagan.' I'm hoping y'all can help answer this.

Who are the 'gods' spoken of in Psalms 58 and 82? Are these lesser divine beings? Are they mortals?

To further help answer this question, I'm throwing in the following.

"How did you come to your conclusion?"

Also, it appears to me, that Catholic teaching is that these 'gods' mentioned were lesser divine beings. Apparently God gave control over heathen nations to them, but reserved Israel for Himself. He later stripped these lesser divine beings of their divinity and reduced them in rank to mortals. If you need me to provide sources, I will do so sometime tomorrow. Until then, have fun.

[PedroX]

Reformation Now,

The Pentatuch (the first 5 books of the Bible) mentions that angels had children with human women. These children became Giants (Goliath?). Noted Presbyterian Author, Douglas Williams has interesting commentary in his book "Angels in the Arichitecture". I'll try to look it up.

peace...

[Good Friday]

The footnote in my New American Bible says the following about Psalm 58:2... "The Bible sometimes understands pagan gods to be lesser divine beings who are assigned by Israel's God to rule the foreign nations. Here they are accused of injustice, permitting the human judges under their patronage to abuse the righteous." The same thing goes for Psalm 82.

I think it's important to point out to this pagan that Christianity in no way, shape, or form believes in the existence of other gods, because that's obviously where he/she is going with this. The Hebrew tradition has always seen these more-than-human rulers of the nations as angels, not as gods.

Three things to point out to this person:

1. The Psalms are poetry, not everything is to be taken literally.

2. The Psalms are in the Old Testament, and the fullness of Truth revealed in Jesus Christ had not yet been revealed to the Jews.

3. Both the Jewish and Christian religions have always affirmed that there is only one God, so these verses must be read in light of the Jewish and Christian traditions. The Jewish tradition has said that these beings that rule over the nations are angels.

[Norseman82]

I always thought that the pagan "gods" with a small "g" were FALSE gods made up by pagans. Maybe the psalmist was mocking them?

There is only ONE TRUE GOD.

Edited August 25, 2003 by Norseman82

[cmotherofpirl]

Here is the section on angels in the catholic encyclopedia:

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/01476d.htm

Reformation: Angels cannot become mortals.

PerdoX: This in another obscure passage in Genesis. THe Church Fathers said this refers to the children of Seth marrying the daughter of Cain.

[ReformationNow]

Reformation: Angels cannot become mortals.

The Catholic Study Edition of the New American Bible states that these divine beings were reduced in rank to mortals after God became displeased with their lack of proper judgement among the mortals in their care.

[Cure of Ars]

My New American Bible says the following.

58,2: Like gods: literally, “O gods!” Here, as also in Ps 82, judges are called “gods” in the sense of “possessing godlike power” or of “taking God’s place in pronouncing judgment.”

On the Internet it was different it said the following.

[2] Gods: the Bible sometimes understands pagan gods to be lesser divine beings who are assigned by Israel's God to rule the foreign nations. Here they are accused of injustice, permitting the human judges under their patronage to abuse the righteous. Cf Psalm 82.

God’s revelation to his people grew and it is historically true during that time that some held the world view that there were other gods who ruled over different areas. In time God revealed that there was only one God who ruled over the entire world and that other gods were not real. I believe that the Psalmist was referring to god in the sense of the first foot note not the second. I personally have a lot of issues with the New American Bible translation and its footnotes although I use it a lot. I always take the footnotes with a grain of salt. Don’t think that this footnote has anything to do with Catholic theology because it doesn’t. I personally think that it confuses people more than enlightens them. The Church has never taught that there were ever other Divine beings besides the Trinity.