Burke Dismantles " Who Am I To Judge"?

[AccountDeleted]

You are being repeatedly belligerent and uncharitable. You have been condescending (repeatedly telling me how I need to stop "putting stake in the future" and calling me "little one" which is perhaps the most condescending thing someone has ever called me) and you keep telling me information I already know. I am not having the best week, people on Phatmass everywhere are being snarky, and my BS meter has hit its full capacity. Please be a mature adult and respect my wishes.

 

 

Well, I'm sorry you are having a bad week but guess what? I might be too, and so might a lot of people here on phatmass - so it isn't always about what you want. If your week is so bad, then by all means, do take a vacation, because maybe you are being hyper sensitive to some things. Yes, I called you little one - and that is no different than having your user name changed to Phetus is it? You said you were fine with that when it happened. And now your name has changed again. 

 

And the fact of the matter is that you are a 'little one' to me -- I am over 60 and yes, I do know a few more things than you do and have been around a little longer. That doesn't mean I am always right but it means that when I call you 'little one' it is a term of affection. But from now on, I will call you FP. I am not going to spell out all your name changes every time.

 

I am not being belligerent - that is your take on the situation, nor do I consider myself uncharitable. I am simply trying very hard not to respond in ways that would be in serious disagreement with you about some things.

 

As for talking about the future over and over again - well, you're looking at it from one end of the time line and I'm looking at it from the other, so I have my own opinions about how valuable it is to try to second guess who will become pope when, where, how, etc. I can totally see how it is fascinating to a young person to do this kind of hypothesizing, but to me, well, I have seen a few popes, been through a few wars, had people assassinated during my lifetime - and that has affected how I view the future -- which is that God controls it - not us. I tried to make a joke of it, but you took it all personally and made it all about you. 

 

Why don't you check out the Lame Board where I teased Deus Te Amat about my hypo of there being no more Mediators of Meh. What wonderfully beautiful and funny responses from DTA! 

 

Teasing is a good thing you know. It is a sign of affection. But I am going to repeat what I wrote in the other thread to you - if you can't handle it - block me. And stop writing things to me that require a response from me!!! That's one sure way to get me to shut up - is to stop posting to me! Because I am going to respond every time - that's just a Pavlovian Response in me. And since tomorrow is a hermit day for us, I have ALL day free to hang around phatmass and respond to posts...... *rubs hands evilly*

 

Honestly FP - please take a chill pill. I don't dislike you or mean anything bad against you. But maybe I am not as patient with your age as I should be. But as Shirley MacLaine said in Steel Magnolias:

I'm not crazy ...  I've just been in a very bad mood for 40 years! 

 

 

[Lilllabettt]

 

Teasing is a good thing you know. It is a sign of affection. 

 

 

Interesting. Are you a 4th grade boy by any chance. 

[Deus te Amat]

Interesting. Are you a 4th grade boy by any chance.

There's a difference between teasing and bullying. Teasing can be a wonderful way for two people to get to know and express affection for the other person.


Case in point -- you should have heard the sisters in the infirmary at my old community. After spending 60+ years with each other, they had enough material with which to tease, and laugh, all day long.

[Vincent Vega]

There's a difference between teasing and bullying. Teasing can be a wonderful way for two people to get to know and express affection for the other person.


Case in point -- you should have heard the sisters in the infirmary at my old community. After spending 60+ years with each other, they had enough material with which to tease, and laugh, all day long.

Interesting. Were they fourth grade boys, by any chance?

[CatherineM]

Teasing is practically the only way my family communicates.

[CatherineM]

Oh and I also have a bad habit of using nicknames that might upset someone. I have a bad habit of calling the 25+ year old seminarians I go to school with "kids." I call some young priests that too. Had an appointment with the president of the college today, and he's young enough to be my son. I called him sonny. It's an old lady thing.

[Ash Wednesday]

A vacation doesn't have to last a week. It only has to last until the vein in the side of your neck isn't showing anymore.

 

I don't know if anyone has told you...but from where I'm standing, it's still showing.

[BarbTherese]

It seems that His Eminence directly disagrees with your distinction in terminology. Do you think his use of the term is problematic?

 

I take very seriously what Jesus has told us about judging.  To me, yes I have problems with using the word "judge".   Hence I needed to define for myself what exactly is judging, which I think I did outline in my post.  Judging implies some sort of sentence also - in my book.  Hence, I prefer the word "assess" all as stated in my post.  I can assess a situation as gravely sinful for example; however mortal sin requires two other circumstances to occur at the same time as grave matter is committed - and only mortal sin has an inbuilt sentence of eternal damnation and to state someone is in the state of mortal sin is judging and a judgement.  Grave matter and mortal sin are two entirely different definitions of which grave matter is only part in the case of mortally sinful actions.

 

Too often in general Catholic culture what is grave matter is determined and stated as mortal sin.  Not so, grave matter is only potentially mortally sinful.  I can assess that a situation is potentially mortally sinful.  Certainly, in my own personal case if I commit grave matter, I can be often relatively confident about the other two required dispositions for mortal sin re myself.  But only God Himself sees the whole picture with absolute accuracy and therefore is indeed in a position to pass judgement - and He will and does.

 

I think Pope Francis was spot on when he said "Who am I to judge?"  This is not at all approving of homosexual activity which is grave matter in my assessment and potentially mortal sin.  And I am quite confident Pope Francis is well aware of this.  His very short statement "Who am I to judge?" should, in my book, give us all cause to pause and reflect, research even, because in my book, Pope Francis was spot on with that statement.

 

I think that Jimmy Aiken's article on the subject did point out some quite wrong conclusions that can be made through accepting that one can indeed judge.  We cannot judge, it is impossible, and indeed Jesus tells us we must not and if we do, it has an inbuilt penalty he laid out quite clearly.  I think to state that we can and do, even must judge, is a risky even dangerous statement coming from hierarchy.

We can however assess.

 

...... :)  My tuppence!  Written very quickly.

[AccountDeleted]

Interesting. Are you a 4th grade boy by any chance. 

 

 

[AccountDeleted]

Oh and I also have a bad habit of using nicknames that might upset someone. I have a bad habit of calling the 25+ year old seminarians I go to school with "kids." I call some young priests that too. Had an appointment with the president of the college today, and he's young enough to be my son. I called him sonny. It's an old lady thing.

 

 

CatherineM - You are probably one of the few posters on here who actually gets me. And that might be an age thing - I don't know. I have read some pretty nasty comments by various posters floating around phatmass, and yet when I try to lighten things up with a few memes and 'chill outs', the bully label comes out. 

 

It was natural in my family to try to defuse a potential unpleasant situation with a little banter to make the other person laugh - but if the other person doesn't have a sense of humor, then I guess it can be construed as some sort of attack. I still don't get the whole culture here though because some people seem to be able to post anything without being called out about it, and yet others seem to be jumped on  no matter what they say. It's a good thing that I learned a long time ago that life isn't fair, or I might start to take some of this personally! :) Looking forward to Screwballs by the way.

 

[puellapaschalis]

I think that if someone tries to use humour to diffuse a tense or hurtful situation, it can instead be interpreted as being dismissive of the hurt or seriousness with which someone else involved is looking at the situation or discussion. Just tossing a comic or gif into such a thread then might not be as helpful as intended.

 

I'm not certain that's what's happening here, but I know the reaction of "This isn't funny, I'm not being taken seriously" is one I've had (whether accurately or not). Which is why I'm offering this possibility here: I'm not sure it's been expressed, or listened to.

Edited September 10, 2014 by puellapaschalis

[AccountDeleted]

I think that if someone tries to use humour to diffuse a tense or hurtful situation, it can instead be interpreted as being dismissive of the hurt or seriousness with which someone else involved is looking at the situation or discussion. Just tossing a comic or gif into such a thread then might not be as helpful as intended.

 

I'm not certain that's what's happening here, but I know the reaction of "This isn't funny, I'm not being taken seriously" is one I've had (whether accurately or not). Which is why I'm offering this possibility here: I'm not sure it's been expressed, or listened to.

 

 

This is a very thoughtful and considered response to a lot of my questions about what has happened in this thread.

 

But I still don't understand why my simple statements that Only God knows the future could have caused such hurt in the first place, so I tried to make light of it. I also don't know why Lilllabettt takes the time in thread after thread to insult me as if I had done something personal to offend her as well.

 

It is obviously something that FP is dealing with himself and perhaps that is what I didn't really understand. Sometimes he seems to be going along with everyone's teasing (for heaven's sake, dUSt changes his name more times that I change my clothes) and then other times (especially from me), he seems to react very badly, as if I had just called him some horrible name. I mean, how was I to know that 'little one' would sound demeaning to him, when to me, it means more like I am talking affectionately to my child -- and yes, now I see that for a young man on the verge of manhood, perhaps that is one of the worst insults you can use. That must be it, because otherwise, all I was trying to say was that at my ripe old age, it doesn't seem very sensible to say things like "I honestly believe that Pope so and so will die/resign etc and that so and so will become pope in his place. So I made light of it all. I can see it is a hypothetical - and seemed fair game to me.

 

But in the interests of peace, I will avoid teasing FP from now on - he obviously can't take it. As for Lilll -- I just simply have no response to her anymore because I don't have any idea what the problem is there apart from this psychological game called 'Let's you and him fight.'

 

Have to rush off to Midday Prayer now - catch you all later.

[Lilllabettt]

This is a very thoughtful and considered response to a lot of my questions about what has happened in this thread.

 

But I still don't understand why my simple statements that Only God knows the future could have caused such hurt in the first place, so I tried to make light of it. I also don't know why Lilllabettt takes the time in thread after thread to insult me as if I had done something personal to offend her as well.

 

It is obviously something that FP is dealing with himself and perhaps that is what I didn't really understand. Sometimes he seems to be going along with everyone's teasing (for heaven's sake, dUSt changes his name more times that I change my clothes) and then other times (especially from me), he seems to react very badly, as if I had just called him some horrible name. I mean, how was I to know that 'little one' would sound demeaning to him, when to me, it means more like I am talking affectionately to my child -- and yes, now I see that for a young man on the verge of manhood, perhaps that is one of the worst insults you can use. That must be it, because otherwise, all I was trying to say was that at my ripe old age, it doesn't seem very sensible to say things like "I honestly believe that Pope so and so will die/resign etc and that so and so will become pope in his place. So I made light of it all. I can see it is a hypothetical - and seemed fair game to me.

 

But in the interests of peace, I will avoid teasing FP from now on - he obviously can't take it. As for Lilll -- I just simply have no response to her anymore because I don't have any idea what the problem is there apart from this psychological game called 'Let's you and him fight.'

 

Have to rush off to Midday Prayer now - catch you all later.

 

 

I just notice there's like a roaming pack of posters on here lately who seem to be following fp around and poking him with a stick. so maybe I decided to follow them around and poke them with a stick.

 

it seems pretty clear to me he's not enjoying it so why don't everybody knock it off. cool your frickin jets. that seems like the decent thing to do.

 

or at least wait until he has done something that actually deserves ridicule. Lots of super wise ripe old people enjoy speculating on who the next pope will be, actually they take bets on it.  

 

so why don't we just lay off the kid O.K. 

[Lilllabettt]

There's a difference between teasing and bullying. 

 

 

Yeah there sure is honey bun, its called  "laughing with or laughing at." 

[puellapaschalis]

I do not know how FP or Lilllabettt read your words, or their reactions to them. I can only offer what my impressions are and how they might 'trigger' reactions in me.

 

From glancing back over the posts where you used the phrase, 'Only God knows the future,' I could read that as being dismissive of any ideas or hypotheses it was in reply to. Someone could have put some effort or emotion into a post or idea, only to have it shot down in (what could be seen as) an overly pious manner.

 

Each person has his own boundaries when it comes to teasing. What 'Phatmass' (or a group of longstanding posters who know each other very well) says is an ok way to respond to each other may not be ok to any one person, and may not even be charitable in an objective sense (because a clique has formed, more focussed on itself than on God).

 

Being called 'little one' will register differently with different people. It may be condescending for someone on the cusp of adulthood. It may be insulting.

(Personal anecdote: when someone I knew quite well online decided to call himself a family member of mine, and then go around telling my (irl) friends how they should and shouldn't interact with me, it was not just condescending but a stepping over of boundaries and a kind of forced intimacy.)

So someone old enough to be my grandmother, but who was not my grandmother, using such a term would be almost an attack on my own self (in a broad sense of the word - perhaps encroachment or trespass is better).

 

The last part of your sentence 'But in the interests of peace, I will avoid teasing FP from now on - he obviously can't take it' reads to me as quite damning. The tone I read from that gave off superiority: he's not good/smart/clever/mature/enough of a man to deal with me, poor lamb. He gets excluded and I'll sit and chitchat with my friends.

 

Communication is hard and online communication is harder. Everyone has their issues and deserves to be treated gently. The majority of people on Phatmass do not, I think, know each other well enough to be able to treat this place as though it were a living room full with their oldest friends.

 

And once more: this is all how I can see myself having reacted to some of these things in the not-so-distant past. I do not claim that this is how anyone actually has interpreted things.

 

TL;DR: Take care not to frustrate and upset people, as you do not know what they go through.