Is There A Crisis In The Church?

[Not The Philosopher]

In short: yes, crisis of faith and reverence.

 

I think that what Benedict XVI said about the Church shrinking down in the future will come to pass. There are increasingly less social reasons to be a nominal Catholic, and increasingly more difficult to be a faithful Catholic and still find a place in the public square.

 

Oh well. We can't all live in times of increase. And, as Gandalf said, it is what we do with the time that is given to us that is important.

[truthfinder]

In some ways, there is always a crisis of faith.  It's very hard to accurately account for how many people truly believed in ages past (historians call it the "convert counting" problem.)  At the same time, the present time (from about the 1970s onwards) has been troubled by the fact the Church is ever true and constant, but not her churchmen.  Clerics and laity alike have forgotten who they were, and why they needed the faith, and above all, forgot the absolute necessity of Jesus Christ and his Church.  In some places this seems to be changing, particularly among trad communities who are starting to move out of isolation.  Trad priests mingling with their other brethren and along with all the laity, being unashamed to declare the Truth of the Church.  (Please, don't get me wrong, there are some incredibly faithful OF priests, but sometimes they are domineered by others including their superiors to keep quiet.)

 

Crises at councils are real.  Preceding them is heresies and laxity, after, a decision to follow or disobey the resolutions of the councils.  The particular problems with Vatican II, however, was that proper catechesis on the rulings of the council was poorly carried out, and in many cases practices developed which were contrary to the council itself.  Catechesis, particularly after Trent, was by far better, at least on a theoretical level - there were tools developed for the average priest to teach his congregation.  Instead, teaching on Vatican II only brought obfuscation of the council's teachings.  It's only in recent years that people are truly reading the documents.  Those who did in the past often ran afoul of clerics (Mother Angelica, for example). 

Edited September 8, 2014 by truthfinder

[Fidei Defensor]

The only crisis I see is a plague of sinfulness without repentance. We're human and sinful, but there is much less propensity to actually call sin what it is and to call for conversion of heart.

[truthfinder]

The only crisis I see is a plague of sinfulness without repentance. We're human and sinful, but there is much less propensity to actually call sin what it is and to call for conversion of heart.

You have said exactly what I was thinking, but in a much more concise manner :)

[PhuturePriest]

 

 

 

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KlGMsAHoCzE

[BarbTherese]

I think that any crisis comes about through lack of formation especially with laity and from laity comes priestly and religious vocations.  After Vatican II when most everything that was held sacred seemed to be changing, I think many in the laity concluded that everything was changing.  Later it is discovered  that this wasn't so and then there came about a state of confusion with the laity as to what had changed and why and how and what remained the same.  From that, I tend to think many 'threw their hands up' and decided to do what they thought was the right thing to do, which in some things was not the right thing at all.  The obligation to attend Mass and Confession and the obligation of Penance and Fridays to mention a few things not held as important to Catholic living. 

 

Many Catholics nowadays (ironically) think that one follows what one understands Jesus taught and the rest is not really necessary at all.  For example, Sunday homilies do interpret The Gospels for us in great and important detail, but we never hear of our Sunday obligation, of our obligation to attend Confession at least once each year, what is and is not mortal sin and that the latter is still a self-consignment to Hell, of our obligation of self denial/penance on Fridays etc. etc.

 

Prior to V2, we often heard in homilies of our obligations as Catholics, Confession, Mortal Sin, Hell etc. and not much at all about The Gospel and what it actually meant in our day to day living, hence the irony of the current situation.

 

I think too that The Church as a human functioning institution has really lost touch with the fact that in modern life with all its stresses and strains ...and distractions, laity just do not have the time, nor even the desire nor inclination, to sit down at their computer and research what is and is not Catholic teaching and thought.  I am in a vastly different position, though in the laity, since I live alone without children and am single and have both time and distinct desire and inclination being under private vows.

 

 

Edited September 8, 2014 by BarbaraTherese

[PhuturePriest]

http://www.catholicherald.co.uk/commentandblogs/2014/09/08/the-decline-in-confession-is-the-most-vivid-illustration-of-the-churchs-fall/

[Credo in Deum]

Your obsession with this picture is clear evidence of a crisis. Try changing it up once in a while, cause I for one am not entertained. In fact I'm getting annoyed.

[PhuturePriest]

Your obsession with this picture is clear evidence of a crisis. Try changing it up once in a while, cause I for one am not entertained. In fact I'm getting annoyed.

 

It's a free forum.

[Lilllabettt]

you spelled phorum wrong. im annoyed.

[PhuturePriest]

you spelled phorum wrong. im annoyed.

 

The forum loses its special spelling when I am displeased.

[truthfinder]

I think that any crisis comes about through lack of formation especially with laity and from laity comes priestly and religious vocations.  After Vatican II when most everything that was held sacred seemed to be changing, I think many in the laity concluded that everything was changing.  Later it is discovered  that this wasn't so and then there came about a state of confusion with the laity as to what had changed and why and how and what remained the same.  From that, I tend to think many 'threw their hands up' and decided to do what they thought was the right thing to do, which in some things was not the right thing at all.  The obligation to attend Mass and Confession and the obligation of Penance and Fridays to mention a few things not held as important to Catholic living. 

 

Many Catholics nowadays (ironically) think that one follows what one understands Jesus taught and the rest is not really necessary at all.  For example, Sunday homilies do interpret The Gospels for us in great and important detail, but we never hear of our Sunday obligation, of our obligation to attend Confession at least once each year, what is and is not mortal sin and that the latter is still a self-consignment to Hell, of our obligation of self denial/penance on Fridays etc. etc.

 

Prior to V2, we often heard in homilies of our obligations as Catholics, Confession, Mortal Sin, Hell etc. and not much at all about The Gospel and what it actually meant in our day to day living, hence the irony of the current situation.

 

I think too that The Church as a human functioning institution has really lost touch with the fact that in modern life with all its stresses and strains ...and distractions, laity just do not have the time, nor even the desire nor inclination, to sit down at their computer and research what is and is not Catholic teaching and thought.  I am in a vastly different position, though in the laity, since I live alone without children and am single and have both time and distinct desire and inclination being under private vows.

I've often felt this way when it comes to homilies.  They may actually be really good and thorough explanations of a reading, but if there's no advice at all for what is means in living out the Faith, it just feels like extra knowledge to me.  I think the pendulum swung too far in this regards. 

[PhuturePriest]

Too many homilies are about what the priest feels Jesus is trying to say. I'd much rather have a homily on the Four Cardinal Virtues than the same homily every year on the woman at the well.

[BarbTherese]

Too many homilies are about what the priest feels Jesus is trying to say. I'd much rather have a homily on the Four Cardinal Virtues than the same homily every year on the woman at the well.

 

The woman at the well is an example where Confession and the consequences chosen in committing mortal sin could be wound into a homily - and a homily which is still very much related to the incident with the woman at the well.  I think so anyway.

 

And I agree with Truthfinder too - that the pendulum has swung too far off centre, way too far..........leaving the laity not floundering any more about what The Church teaches and what She does not teach, rather the situation now is worse with many of the laity with whom I have had contact arriving at their own conclusions on Church Teaching and on some matters stated as Church Teaching, which clearly it is not.

 

On the subject of Confession, I have heard it more than once that it is no longer necessary as it once was and that sin can be a matter between oneself and God alone, no need for Confession.  This is absolutely not Church Teaching rather the position in non-Catholic Christianity in most instances.  I have even heard it that Sunday Mass is no longer as necessary every Sunday as before.

 

Many in the laity, it seems to me, are confused.  The problem can be too that if one tries gently to set things aright, one is dismissed completely since one is not a priest nor religious.

 

Must add too that I live in South Australia and am an Australian, and the situation re Catholicism here is truly woeful in my book including sometimes amongst priests and religious, who can have some very strange ideas indeed.  Of course, strange ideas are not at all confined to some priests and religious - the problem is that they are most always accepted as an informed and final authority on Church Teaching.  It seems too that if some sort of authorities present conflicting information, the tendency is to settle on what is most convenient, rather than to seek to research the matter further to discern what is the truth of matters, which just probably would present a third opinion and probably the more accurate.

 

Of course, all is drawn from my experience and so, of necessity, is limited experience.
 

Edited September 9, 2014 by BarbaraTherese

[BarbTherese]

A lax attitude towards Confession and The Mass does betray, it seems to me, a lack of understanding of what intrinsically is The Sacrament of Confession (and all Sacraments) and also what intrinsically is The Mass i.e. lack of formation of understanding on matters of primary importance to Catholic living and to life and one's journey.