Thoughts On College And Tuition?

[Vincent Vega]

I remember hearing a story of a young woman who was told to get a bachelor's degree, and that's all she would need to get a job in law. She got it, no jobs came in, and she was told to go and get a masters degree. She got it, no jobs came her way, and she was assured if she got a higher degree the jobs would be thrown at her. She got it, couldn't find any jobs, and had $400,000 in debt by the end. It's safe to say that our system is effed up no matter which route you take.

 

Anecdotal or not (and that seems to be what most of the evidence you've thrown around is), no matter what you do to the educational system, there will always be snake oil salesman, and there will always be idiots who feel the need to rub it on themselves. 

 

And what university was this? Was it a respected one, or was it Southern North West Virginia U Online?

[PhuturePriest]

Yes, exactly, which comes back to my original point, that no one is going to hand a job to you once you get out of college, even though that's what many of us were taught, so now we have to teach other people that you have to have a contingency plan for when you don't get your dream big salary job right away. It's wonderful to go to college, but you have to be smart about it. 

 

Absolutely! My brother-in-law got a degree in history at Benedictine. His counselor and teachers swore up and down that so long as he had that degree from their renowned accredited program, he would be working at the Smithsonian faster than he could say "liars". He is now a manager at Wal-Mart, and has not been able to find one job in history to even apply for, let alone actually get.

[PhuturePriest]

Anecdotal or not (and that seems to be what most of the evidence you've thrown around is), no matter what you do to the educational system, there will always be snake oil salesman, and there will always be idiots who feel the need to rub it on themselves. 

 

And what university was this? Was it a respected one, or was it Southern North West Virginia U Online?

 

Harvard, actually.

[blazeingstar]

I wasn't ignoring it, just busy. And it's a very valid point. I remember hearing a story of a young woman who was told to get a bachelor's degree, and that's all she would need to get a job in law. She got it, no jobs came in, and she was told to go and get a masters degree. She got it, no jobs came her way, and she was assured if she got a higher degree the jobs would be thrown at her. She got it, couldn't find any jobs, and had $400,000 in debt by the end. It's safe to say that our system is effed up no matter which route you take.

 

Being stupid isn't an excuse to dismiss higher education.  To simply listen to people and spend hundreds of thousands of dollars is insane.  People say buying a house is a need in some places, but no one would go out and buy a 400k house because someone told them to.  They research.  It's her own fault.

 

 

People can be taught more from their parents. They can also be taught more in school. Not everyone is a good teacher, but that applies to certified teachers as well. However, let's not get into that subject today.

 

You realize there still is apprenticeship, right? I can go right now and be an apprentice electrician.

 

They can, but to model education after it would be dangerous...and just really dumb.

 

And yes, I know there are apprenticeships, but they are few, far between and require alot of financial sacrifice, often more than a degree.

[PhuturePriest]

So all colleges, all professors teach exactly the same?  Really?  Can you help me find that college?  I'd like to know.

 

You're making the assumption that every college, every learning environment set forth by them is virtually the same.  Even in my tiny college I was exposed to many, many different ways of learning from straight up rote lecture to a professor who taught us outside and climbed on desks and bounced from one to another.  I had a religion professor who taught much of Catholicism via Charleston Heston and a philosophy professor who used movies and his dog as examples.

 

I was also forced to deal with a couple instructors who would not teach to my learning style.  That in itself taught me alot, too.

 

My brother went to a 2 year school for forestry that is a arm of a large-well know private wealthy school where they had to chop wood as part of class credit and burnt forests.   My brother who went to school for music wrote a song where the accompaniment was entirely tracts of ripping duck tape. College isn't a stagnant lecture of 300 people.  If it is, you're doing it wrong.

 

Can you tell me the name of this glorious place?

[PhuturePriest]

Being stupid isn't an excuse to dismiss higher education.  To simply listen to people and spend hundreds of thousands of dollars is insane.  People say buying a house is a need in some places, but no one would go out and buy a 400k house because someone told them to.  They research.  It's her own fault.

 

 

 

They can, but to model education after it would be dangerous...and just really dumb.

 

And yes, I know there are apprenticeships, but they are few, far between and require alot of financial sacrifice, often more than a degree.

 

I am in no way opposed to higher education. If I find a way to get a masters degree in theology, amass little debt, and get experience along the way, you'd better believe I'll take it. The issue is, doing this while accomplishing objective #2 is next to impossible in the current economic climate, and that's the issue.

[Vincent Vega]

Harvard, actually.

 

Naturally. And is there some documentation to this story?

[PhuturePriest]

Naturally. And is there some documentation to this story?

 

She was interviewed on the Glenn Beck show a few years back. I don't remember her name.

[blazeingstar]

Absolutely! My brother-in-law got a degree in history at Benedictine. His counselor and teachers swore up and down that so long as he had that degree from their renowned accredited program, he would be working at the Smithsonian faster than he could say "liars". He is now a manager at Wal-Mart, and has not been able to find one job in history to even apply for, let alone actually get.

 

Thats like asking a realtor if you should buy a million dollar house in Detroit.  People need to be smart.  We have the internet, we have many resources.  I do know people with history degrees...mostly in education....but they have had to do things on their own or go on for more.

 

My brother has a psychology degree and did manage at walmart for a while and now manages deliveries and the kitchen for a four star resort's dining facilities.  He's said many times that his psychology classes are more helpful than he ever could say in dealing with all the strange characters he deals with.

[PhuturePriest]

Thats like asking a realtor if you should buy a million dollar house in Detroit.  People need to be smart.  We have the internet, we have many resources.  I do know people with history degrees...mostly in education....but they have had to do things on their own or go on for more.

 

My brother has a psychology degree and did manage at walmart for a while and now manages deliveries and the kitchen for a four star resort's dining facilities.  He's said many times that his psychology classes are more helpful than he ever could say in dealing with all the strange characters he deals with.

 

A very handy thing about having his degree is that although he is working at Walmart, he was immediately upgraded to management because of his degree. He doesn't make a lot more money than he did before, but it's something.

[PhuturePriest]

Yes, exactly, which comes back to my original point, that no one is going to hand a job to you once you get out of college, even though that's what many of us were taught, so now we have to teach other people that you have to have a contingency plan for when you don't get your dream big salary job right away. It's wonderful to go to college, but you have to be smart about it. 

 

Here's a quick link that agrees with what you're saying. There's also a very interesting list of student loan resources, named "The Big-Ass List of Student Loan Resources". You can't help but trust a list with that kind of honest name. :P

[PhuturePriest]

And a while back someone mentioned going into military service to help pay for your student loans. It's a great idea, except I can't because I'm homeschooled. The military only admits homeschoolers whose school schedule mirrors that of a public school, which mine does not.

[blazeingstar]

I am in no way opposed to higher education. If I find a way to get a masters degree in theology, amass little debt, and get experience along the way, you'd better believe I'll take it. The issue is, doing this while accomplishing objective #2 is next to impossible in the current economic climate, and that's the issue.

 

 

No, no phetus, it isn't.  You insisting it's so, doesn't mean it is.

 

1) find a program of 2+2 at a community college.  Live at home, or if this is impossible find a cheap place to live with a roommate.  If you are living on your own without parental support you will need to declare an amendment on your FASFA.  You will need to work with this at your school until you are 25.  The incident with your family may be enough if you don't feel safe.

2) apply to the federal work study program.  There is lots of money to be had.  Most is often left on the table.

3) Look for scholarships.  You dance, you do martial arts, you've mentioned other productive things besides your penchant for body grooming.  Fastweb.com is your friend

4) volunteer at a parish and make your name known in the dioceses for taking a leadership role.  See if the diocese offers any training and enrichment programs

5) Study on your own, take CLEP Tests once you pick your college and know what they accept.

6) As you build connections in the job you want make sure that it's the right thing for you

7) Apply to graduate schools that offer student teacher positions.  Apply to dozens, find ways to waive application fees. There are some that are filled quickly but there are many that go completely unfilled.  Way more than people think.

[blazeingstar]

And a while back someone mentioned going into military service to help pay for your student loans. It's a great idea, except I can't because I'm homeschooled. The military only admits homeschoolers whose school schedule mirrors that of a public school, which mine does not.

 

 

Oh c'mon now you're not even trying.

 

http://www.hslda.org/docs/news/2013/201304260.asp

 

and the update

 

http://www.hslda.org/docs/news/2014/201403180.asp

Edited August 26, 2014 by blazeingstar

[PhuturePriest]

No, no phetus, it isn't.  You insisting it's so, doesn't mean it is.

 

1) find a program of 2+2 at a community college.  Live at home, or if this is impossible find a cheap place to live with a roommate.  If you are living on your own without parental support you will need to declare an amendment on your FASFA.  You will need to work with this at your school until you are 25.  The incident with your family may be enough if you don't feel safe.

2) apply to the federal work study program.  There is lots of money to be had.  Most is often left on the table.

3) Look for scholarships.  You dance, you do martial arts, you've mentioned other productive things besides your penchant for body grooming.  Fastweb.com is your friend

4) volunteer at a parish and make your name known in the dioceses for taking a leadership role.  See if the diocese offers any training and enrichment programs

5) Study on your own, take CLEP Tests once you pick your college and know what they accept.

6) As you build connections in the job you want make sure that it's the right thing for you

7) Apply to graduate schools that offer student teacher positions.  Apply to dozens, find ways to waive application fees. There are some that are filled quickly but there are many that go completely unfilled.  Way more than people think.

 

This is great knowledge to know. Thank you.