Thoughts On College And Tuition?

[CrossCuT]

The ability to succeed in school is a different conversation than the politics surrounding cost and affordability. 

 

The US education system is pretty one note. If you cant conform to that way or thinking or if you do not thrive in that atmosphere, you will likely struggle. But that doesnt mean there are other modes of education...they just arent as well known or not certified in anyway. Self education is pretty important, but its not for everyone...nor is it even viable in some career paths because you need to have the paper proof that you know what you claim you know.

 

My fiance has nothing besides his high school diploma and he works in film and tech administration. He is completely self taught and has been able to be extremely successful without higher education. He tried it...went to school at a university in California, bu he hated it. He was always the kid asking why or trying to think outside of the box. Unfortunately, that didnt work out so well and he simply dropped out. 

 

Now he works at a high profile job doing what he loves! I am not advocating for everyone to abandon their education paths, Im just pointing out that the system has many flaws...and a couple BIG flaws. 

 

My favoritre graphic always sums it up pretty well!

 

It might sound fluffy and hippie-ish, but everything DOES have something they are an expert at. However society and the way our system is set up deems some types of expertise as having less value..and indeed they are correct because of the mad politics and our broken monetary system. Your value is determined by how well you fit into the system...if your abilities or God given gifts dont fit...you have no value. 

[John Ryan]

Using one person as the end all be all of how education should be gauged and carried out is wrong and narrow-minded. Just because one guy made it work doesn't mean the rest of us can. Just sayin'.

 

Glenn Beck was self-taught and look how that other side of the coin turned out.

[PhuturePriest]

Using one person as the end all be all of how education should be gauged and carried out is wrong and narrow-minded. Just because one guy made it work doesn't mean the rest of us can. Just sayin'.

 

I cited a success story. Amppax cited one person who was a flop for doing what Stephen Ray did. How is my citing one person narrow-minded but his citing one person a valid point?

 

But those people turn out to be the Rousseau's of this world. And Rousseau was a moron. Not only is there no replacing, there's really no comparison. I'm tired of dealing with people thinking they're experts because they've read and think they understand what they're reading. 

 

 

[Credo in Deum]

This is why people sell drugs. 

[CrossCuT]

Using one person as the end all be all of how education should be gauged and carried out is wrong and narrow-minded. Just because one guy made it work doesn't mean the rest of us can. Just sayin'.

 

 

Glenn Beck was self-taught and look how that other side of the coin turned out.

 

 

The idea here is that there is no mold that fits everyone. However with the way things work currently, thats reality. Reality can be changed, but because education in america is a business, they only push one path for students; the path of monotony and debt. 

 

There ARE other paths, but they have less value and have a negative stereotype attached to them and are really only relevant for certain career paths. But that doesnt mean one way is more superior. 

[blazeingstar]

A lecture at a conference is not the same as a classroom.

 

It seems to be a point of pride for him...and obviously a touchy subject for you.  For him to claim that he's never ever set foot in a college classroom when classrooms are just buildings is just hubris.  It seems his highschool did quite a bit of college-level learning providing him with his first start into the business world.

 

Again, he's obviously benefited from many well educated theologians and highly educated people including Scott Hahn.

 

So he can declare to you, or to the world, that he hasn't been to college and that he is an example to show that college is unnecessary.  However, that is rather ridiculous given how much he directly benefits from those who have attended college from editors, publishers to those who recorded a CD.  He has read texts and gleaned knowledge from those who spent decades in college.

 

Again, just because he can do it, dosn't make it a good thing or repeatable.

[CrossCuT]

This is why people sell drugs. 

 

Yup. 

[Basilisa Marie]

My sister went to Benedictine and got a degree in theology and youth ministry. In one of her classes, one of her required books was Coming Soon: Unlocking the Book of Revelation by Michael Barber. She literally paid $33,000 that year to hear a guy relay the information out of a $16 book.

 

And I had to take a statistics class that used one page of a $150 textbook, taught by a high school math teacher getting paid by the hour, who told us day one that he was going to do his best to get us all As. That was on top of the $300 something dollars a credit hour I was shelling out for the class. I bet she also had some amazing classes too, right? 

 

Professors give you context. They answer your questions. They bring other materials together. They show you what parts of the book are important, and what parts they disagree with. You talk about the book with other people who (ideally) have also read the book and care about it. You get to know those people over the term and come to learn from their perspectives, too. At the end of the term you write a paper and do your own research. You get a sense of the way the field works. For theology, you get acquainted with the major movements in today's theological landscape, and the movements in the past. It's about entering into a conversation with others. 

Now look what you made me do, I started out all practical and you've forced me to wax philosophic about the idealistic wonders of a liberal education. :) 

[PhuturePriest]

It seems to be a point of pride for him...and obviously a touchy subject for you.  For him to claim that he's never ever set foot in a college classroom when classrooms are just buildings is just hubris.  It seems his highschool did quite a bit of college-level learning providing him with his first start into the business world.

 

Again, he's obviously benefited from many well educated theologians and highly educated people including Scott Hahn.

 

So he can declare to you, or to the world, that he hasn't been to college and that he is an example to show that college is unnecessary.  However, that is rather ridiculous given how much he directly benefits from those who have attended college from editors, publishers to those who recorded a CD.  He has read texts and gleaned knowledge from those who spent decades in college.

 

Again, just because he can do it, dosn't make it a good thing or repeatable.

 

There are flops on all sides of educational pursuits. I can name a lot more flops who got college degrees and can't find a job than I can people who did it all themselves. Just sayin'.

 

But this isn't about putting them opposed to each other. College vs. self-taught shouldn't be a war. Both are perfectly valid for the people who benefit most from them. The issue with the system is it's completely one-sided to those who go to college, and completely against those who are self-taught. Steve Irwin never went to college, but he was more knowledgeable and experienced with animals than most people with doctorates in biology and zoology. At the same time, there are many people with doctorates who are very knowledgeable and perfectly qualified to do what their degree claims they can do.

[IcePrincessKRS]

The idea here is that there is no mold that fits everyone. However with the way things work currently, thats reality. Reality can be changed, but because education in america is a business, they only push one path for students; the path of monotony and debt. 

 

There ARE other paths, but they have less value and have a negative stereotype attached to them and are really only relevant for certain career paths. But that doesnt mean one way is more superior. 

 

The bolded bit, that was exactly my point. I wanted to go to a trade school, my mom insisted I get a 4 year degree. These days, aside from homeschooling my children, I don't use it. We've often encouraged our children to think hard about what they want to do because that will greatly influence their future education options. If one of my kids decides that they want to enter a specific trade I'm going to put them into a trade school as soon as they're old enough. The cost of higher education is ridiculous.

[PhuturePriest]

And I had to take a statistics class that used one page of a $150 textbook, taught by a high school math teacher getting paid by the hour, who told us day one that he was going to do his best to get us all As. That was on top of the $300 something dollars a credit hour I was shelling out for the class. I bet she also had some amazing classes too, right? 

 

Professors give you context. They answer your questions. They bring other materials together. They show you what parts of the book are important, and what parts they disagree with. You talk about the book with other people who (ideally) have also read the book and care about it. You get to know those people over the term and come to learn from their perspectives, too. At the end of the term you write a paper and do your own research. You get a sense of the way the field works. For theology, you get acquainted with the major movements in today's theological landscape, and the movements in the past. It's about entering into a conversation with others. 

Now look what you made me do, I started out all practical and you've forced me to wax philosophic about the idealistic wonders of a liberal education. :)

 

I'm not campaigning against college -- I think college is a wonderful thing. Is it necessary? The answer is yes and no. The system views college as the height of educational pursuits -- which is both right and wrong. It is the height of all educational and intellectual pursuits for those who thrive in a college environment. But there are other people whose height of educational and intellectual pursuits is simply learning everything by themselves, and they're just as knowledgeable and qualified as people who went to college. The issue is, the system has been created to oppose such people and offer little to no opportunities to them. We've made education into one-size-fits-all, which it doesn't. One size has never fit all, and it never will, especially with something as important as education and intellectual pursuit.

[Basilisa Marie]

There are flops on all sides of educational pursuits. I can name a lot more flops who got college degrees and can't find a job than I can people who did it all themselves. Just sayin'.

 

But this isn't about putting them opposed to each other. College vs. self-taught shouldn't be a war. Both are perfectly valid for the people who benefit most from them. The issue with the system is it's completely one-sided to those who go to college, and completely against those who are self-taught. Steve Irwin never went to college, but he was more knowledgeable and experienced with animals than most people with doctorates in biology and zoology. At the same time, there are many people with doctorates who are very knowledgeable and perfectly qualified to do what their degree claims they can do.

 

You sure about that? Just because someone is good at teaching something to the masses, it doesn't mean that he's a consummate expert in the field. Take Scott Hahn - his work is incredibly influential and important to all kinds of lay Catholics. But it's "popular" theology. He's not famous for being a venerable academic. He's not one of the world's leading expert on any particular book of the Bible, or biblical theme. Not even close. But then again, that's not his focus. His focus seems to be helping average Catholics learn the faith, and in that he is highly venerable. But then, he also did go and get his PhD, so he is certainly more than familiar with what today's theologians are doing. 

[PhuturePriest]

You sure about that? Just because someone is good at teaching something to the masses, it doesn't mean that he's a consummate expert in the field. Take Scott Hahn - his work is incredibly influential and important to all kinds of lay Catholics. But it's "popular" theology. He's not famous for being a venerable academic. He's not one of the world's leading expert on any particular book of the Bible, or biblical theme. Not even close. But then again, that's not his focus. His focus seems to be helping average Catholics learn the faith, and in that he is highly venerable. But then, he also did go and get his PhD, so he is certainly more than familiar with what today's theologians are doing. 

 

He grew up in a zoo, quite literally. His family's house was in the family zoo. He learned the trade by experience, much like people used to in the days of yore. Obviously, things such as zoos are quite rare for people to grow up in, but there are people whose fathers are welders, gunsmiths, plumbers, engineers, who grow up learning about the trade and end up knowing as much as a person with a degree does.

[IcePrincessKRS]

I cited a success story. Amppax cited one person who was a flop for doing what Stephen Ray did. How is my citing one person narrow-minded but his citing one person a valid point?

 

Well, he didn't call anyone narrow minded, for a start. Plus, you repeated your point to Basilia, so you apparently thought your point held more value--which is why I tossed your phrasing back at you. His point resonated with me because I (and I am sure we all) have often encountered people that throw information around that we know to be factually incorrect. Information that they read somewhere, probably on the internet. There is great value in instruction, just as there is value in studying on your own. Even people that "make it on their own" have learned from someone else. I have family that skipped college and started their own businesses, and 99% of it was from their own hard work, but the seeds of the skills they employ started somewhere--they were taught something by someone else, a teacher, a parent. My husband's skills are largely self-taught, but he went to college to further his knowledge and to secure his ability to get a job in his given field. There are many, many ways of educating oneself, but the vast majority need instruction of some sort. I'm not hammering the need for a Bachelor's degree, just saying that there are more ways than one.

Edited August 26, 2014 by IcePrincessKRS

[PhuturePriest]

Well, he didn't call anyone narrow minded, for a start. Plus, you repeated your point to Basilia, so you apparently thought your point held more value--which is why I tossed your phrasing back at you. His point resonated with me because I (and I am sure we all) have often encountered people that throw information around that we know to be factually incorrect. Information that they read somewhere, probably on the internet. There is great value in instruction, just as there is value in studying on your own. Even people that "make it on their own" have learned from someone else. I have family that skipped college and started their own businesses, and 99% of it was from their own hard work, but the seeds of the skills they employ started somewhere--they were taught something by someone else, a teacher, a parent. My husband's skills are largely self-taught, but he went to college to further his knowledge and to secure his ability to get a job in his given field. There are many, many ways of educating oneself, but the vast majority need instruction of some sort. I'm not hammering the need for a Bachelor's degree, just saying that there are more ways than one.

 

There is much merit in being taught. But again, the system makes it to where if you weren't taught in a college, what you know isn't really worth anything. It's narrow-minded and stifles creativity in the job market.