Thoughts On College And Tuition?

[Basilisa Marie]

The idea of going to a university to expand the mind is outdated. Universities were created so people could come and educate themselves because there were no other places they could do that. Now there's nothing you can learn at Harvard that I can't Google with my phone. Going to a university for the sake of learning is outdated and too costly. When they lower tuition down to reasonable costs, then we can go to universities for the sake of learning. As it is, we need to justify the expenses of college by getting a job that pays for it. If you can't justify the expenses of college by getting a job that pays for it, then it's time to re-think your education plans.

 

Well, not quite. College teaches you how to do research, how to think critically about things, and gives you access to special collections of resources that would otherwise be very expensive. 

 

I do agree that you have to justify the expense of college with some kind of plan, whether that be a career path or kissing up to Miss Havisham. I mean, look at all the kids asking for donations to pay down their student loans so they can enter religious life. While there's nothing wrong with asking for help, having a large debt can delay an aspirant's entrance date. Large debt can make it harder for a couple to grow their family. I mean, if we're trying to encourage Catholic values, we need to make sure teens know what they'e getting into when it comes to college debt.  Financial responsibility of all kinds is sorely lacking in a lot of college kids. 

[Slappo]

To give people an idea of the true cost of college:

If you have $100,000 in your bank account at age 18 and can choose between 4 years of school or investing it in the S&P 500, the long term opportunity cost of choosing college vs the investment is 100k compounded at 7% interest over 40 years (roughly retirement age). 100k over 40 years at a 7% average return is $1.4 million dollars, which is about half of what you would need to retire 40 years from now to be drawing the equivalent of 40k a year in today's money in retirement.

 

So the cost of a $100,000 college education can be equated with about half the money it would take you to retire. And that's not taking into account the income you could have earned during the 4 years of college. Even if you didn't have 100k in the bank when starting college, the payments you make on student loans and student loan interest are forgone retirement savings.

 

For a degree where you are actually going to be making significant amounts of money more than without a degree, it can be worth it, but for a liberal arts degree in a low paying field, you're shooting yourself in the foot financially.

Edited August 26, 2014 by Slappo

[PhuturePriest]

For a degree where you are actually going to be making significant amounts of money more than without a degree, it can be worth it, but for a liberal arts degree in a low paying field, you're shooting yourself in the foot financially.

 

What really drives me nuts is that people view trade schools as places stupid people go. A person majoring in English and amassing $100,000 in debt who might find a job in their field, and if he/she does, will make an entry-level income of about $30,000, is considered smart. But the person who goes to a trade school, has little to no debt whatsoever at the end, has jobs thrown at him and makes an entry-level income of about $50,000, is considered stupid.

 

Modern society doesn't think things through.

Edited August 26, 2014 by The Phetus

[Vincent Vega]

Now there's nothing you can learn at Harvard that I can't Google with my phone.

[Anastasia13]

I say go to college, but make sure you work while you go, go to community college first, and apply for scholarships.

[Anastasia13]

I say go to college, but make sure you work while you go, go to community college first, and apply for scholarships.

And try to make it several years of related work experience that can translate into some sort of career.

[blazeingstar]

As someone who works at a college.

 

More and more I see traditional college as the "parent-less" generation and a touch of consumerism catching up with us.

 

The current cots in college come from students wanting to have hotel-like dorms, private chef-like dinners and the need for every activity known to man as well as support services for every disability known to man and the very huge need for counseling.  At my college of 3,000 there were 3 full time psychologists and 2 part timers.  The need was real.

 

My job is solely born out of students being unable to care for themselves.

 

I find parents neglectful and disgusting often, especially those "good".  They drop little Janie off at college without knowing how to so much as boil water, do laundry, cope with any sort of incarnation of the word no.  What freshman don't know, and how ill prepared they are gets worse year after year.  It wasn't until the late 2000's when orientation started to include a laundry day.  Hotplates are banned and so are coffee makers.  In dorm inspections and leave behinds we see virtually none of these self-reliance items where we once saw hundreds.  There are quite a few students who don't know how to make ramen unless it came in one of those foam cups...taking it out of a plastic bag and placing it in a bowl somehow is too confusing.  If you look at an orientation staff book from the 1990's compared to today....I just can't imagine students like that.  Once upon a time RA staff did dorm checks for freshman on their first night to prevent hook-ups.  They now do it to ensure parents have gone home....of both men and women!!!  Do you know how many hundreds of thousands of work-study dollars are now denied.  I drove through one campus that had a poster that 80% of work study funds were rejected by students and and 50% of those students do not indicate having outside employment.  Except for nurses--who have clinics and work experience--- no one, not music majors, not engineers, no one (bar disabilities) should be going through college without employment.

 

So for the rest of society, those of who wish to succeed and get the educational component, things get tough.

 

Education could be cheap, but it's not colleges fault it is expensive.  Students need to be diligent.  Get a scholarship, get credit as a high-school student, do  a 2+2 or even 3+1 tract that 99% of community colleges have.   There is absolutely no reason, no need to graduate with 30k or more in debt.  If every student did this---within a few years things would come back into balance.

 

That, and trade school is now looked down upon when it's the cheaper, more efficient solution for many students, often those who languish in college and take bogus majors because they can't deal with the rigor of an actual major.

 

But it's the fault of the consumers, not the providers.  Student loans have just made it possible for the providers to give more to their consumers.

[Maggyie]

College is an awesome investment but like any investing it has to be done correctly.

Often times I see people on this phorum wanting to go to a private Catholic college and get a bachelors in theology.

That's a recipe for disaster. Unless you are planning to continue on the academic track to a doctorate or enter the priesthood, the Church has 0 unmet need for people with bachelors degrees in theology. None. Zippo.

It's not needed to evangelize and in fact it's a barrier to evangelization if it keeps you from entering religious life or having a happy Domestic Church because of all the debt.

Everything you will learn in Dr Scott Hahn's undergrad classroom (or at Ave Maria or Christendom for instance) can be learned by opening books on the weekend.

[puellapaschalis]

College is an amesome investment but like any investing it has to be done correctly.

Often times I see people on this phorum wanting to go to a private Catholic college and get a bachelors in theology.

That's a recipe for disaster. Unless you are planning to continue on the academic track to a doctorate or enter the priesthood, the Church has 0 unmet need for people with bachelors degrees in theology. None. Zippo.

It's not needed to evangelize and in fact it's a barrier to evangelization if it keeps you from entering religious life or having a happy Domestic Church because of all the debt.

Everything you will learn in Dr Scott Hahn's undergrad classroom (or at Ave Maria or Christendom for instance) can be learned by opening books on the weekend.

 

Agreed. I think people often want to study Theology when in fact what they need is decent, advanced, catechesis, which of course must be much more extensive than the watered-down pap handed out today.
 

[CatherineM]

We're so short of tradespeople here that pipe fitters make more money than lawyers.

[Fidei Defensor]

College is an amesome investment but like any investing it has to be done correctly.

Often times I see people on this phorum wanting to go to a private Catholic college and get a bachelors in theology.

That's a recipe for disaster. Unless you are planning to continue on the academic track to a doctorate or enter the priesthood, the Church has 0 unmet need for people with bachelors degrees in theology. None. Zippo.

It's not needed to evangelize and in fact it's a barrier to evangelization if it keeps you from entering religious life or having a happy Domestic Church because of all the debt.

Everything you will learn in Dr Scott Hahn's undergrad classroom (or at Ave Maria or Christendom for instance) can be learned by opening books on the weekend.

I agree. That's why I got a degree in biology first…and NOW i'm going for theology!

[Amppax]

Yeah, and you can do that with a library card and an internet connection.  Sure, there's absolutely no replacing a classroom setting, with a professor and being able to discuss with other students. 

 

 

But those people turn out to be the Rousseau's of this world. And Rousseau was a moron. Not only is there no replacing, there's really no comparison. I'm tired of dealing with people thinking they're experts because they've read and think they understand what they're reading. 

[CrossCuT]

The american model of education is poo. 

 

Education has turned into a business and the students are profit centers. Universities do not reflect real life and most students dont cultivate an open mind or free thinking while they are there...they want to get good grades! And the only way to do that is to say what the teacher wants to hear on a test or exam. "Free thinking" is rewarded with poor grades in college. 

 

People regard certain degrees as worthless because you cant get a job...thats sad. No one should feel like they cant do what they want to because their interest arent money makers. And that may be a narrative that goes beyond the classroom but I digress. 

 

Im a socialist so I believe in high tax to fund education for EVERYONE without destroying their future prospects. Not only that, but people wont be so afraid to go to school with the thoughts of debt burdening their mind. So many people simply cant handle that burden and thus dont go to school.

 

But what do I know? Im a liberal socialist hippie feminist! :) 

[CrossCuT]

My job is solely born out of students being unable to care for themselves.

 

What do you do? 

[blazeingstar]

What do you do? 

 

A mix of things, but it s a job once handled by professors, I have an official title, but in reality I'm similar to a high school guidance Councillor combined with tutor and parent/student/professor arbitrator.  

 

The level of support services required by students today, even in the low-cost models like Community Colleges and Junior colleges have been nothing short of horrific in my view.  

 

Honestly, I'm not sure how the college I work for stays in business.  These are the non-residential things that we provide:

How, for $100-$300 a credit can a college

-provide emotional support

-provide tutoring

-provide emergency resources

-provide professional councelling

-provide "interesting" activities

-provide transportation

-provide career services

-provide classes themselves

-develop staff, including instructors

-provide employees with decent workspaces

-maintain buildings

 

....I can go on and on....and this is for a college who's majority of students don't live on campus.  Campus student's needs are CRAZY.  One college (it was out west, I believe) with a bad rep for food redid their dining hall and enrollment and student satisfaction jumped by 150% in 3 years.

 

We have a model that is simply not sustainable from both ends.  Eventually, people won't pay, eventually we will run out of services to provide, eventually adjuncts will go back to working in the professional world.