If God Wished That Nobody Would Perish In Hell, Then Why Did He Create

[Era Might]

So do you believe Jesus lived? Do you believe he died on the cross?

 

Sure, I haven't studied the question, though I have no reason to believe he didn't. But Christ did not write anything, his followers did.

[Guest]

So you just don't believe in the miracles and him being ressurected?

[Kia ora]

So if Hitler (to continue my cliched example) did not change before death, you're perfectly happy with him suffering no significant consequence for his evil?

And do you also find nothing wrong or troubling if good persons who suffer enormous evil or suffering in this world through no fault of their own have no reward of eternal happiness to look forward to after death?

 

If there is no heaven or hell, human existence is fundamentally and massively unjust.

 

what about if god forgives everyone? is forgiveness just or unjust? i thought true justice came from love, not from whether on not people get their just deserts.

[Guest]

what about if god forgives everyone? is forgiveness just or unjust? i thought true justice came from love, not from whether on not people get their just deserts.

I think God does forgive everyone that truly calls out to Him in sincerity. Watch the videos I posted they are very interesting and illustrate that point. Edited January 2, 2015 by Guest

[Guest]

Also I think purgatory is where a lot of people go. That's why purgatory makes a lot of sense to me. It's God's mercy for people who deserve to be separated from him because of their actions. Yet their faith saves them.

Edited January 2, 2015 by Guest

[Era Might]

So you just don't believe in the miracles and him being ressurected?

 

No, I consider them the same way I consider all mythologies, as important stories through which human beings create meaning. Though I'm sure Christ was a great spiritual figure in history, just as Buddha and others have been, men of deep spiritual insight. I personally worship Christ as God, just not in a literal sense, but as my mythology.

[Socrates]

what about if god forgives everyone? is forgiveness just or unjust? i thought true justice came from love, not from whether on not people get their just deserts.

 

God is both just and merciful.  God offers His mercy to everyone (none of us deserves it), but we remain free to reject it.  (That whole free will thing.)

God doesn't force salvation on anyone - it requires our free consent.  We must freely accept His invitation to repent and accept His mercy and forgiveness.

 

Tragically, people can and do reject Christ and His mercy.

 

 

Kia, are you Christian?  If so, you might do well to listen to what Jesus Christ actually said about hell and salvation.  If you reject the reality of hell, you make Jesus out to be either ignorant or a liar.  

(You might also want to drop the silly atheist habit of spelling "God" with a lower-case "g.")

[Kia ora]

how do you reconcile what you've just written with your belief that people must be punished in order for their to be justice in the world? if god forgave hitler, then what is your reaction? is that justice overturned or the perfection of justice?

 

god knows that i'm not a christian. if i was a christian i'd be living a very different life.

[Guest]

No, I consider them the same way I consider all mythologies, as important stories through which human beings create meaning. Though I'm sure Christ was a great spiritual figure in history, just as Buddha and others have been, men of deep spiritual insight. I personally worship Christ as God, just not in a literal sense, but as my mythology.

Feel free to tell me to shut up at anytime. Not interrogating you just honestly curious. Do u believe in God ? Or maybe a new age way of looking at Him perhaps as the "source" or something like that? Edited January 2, 2015 by Guest

[Era Might]

Feel free to tell me to shut up at anytime. Not interrogating you just honestly curious. Do u believe in God ? Or maybe a new age way of looking at Him perhaps as the "source" or something like that?

 

I don't know. I don't believe in a personal God in a Christian sense, an invisible world of Angels, Saints, Demons, Divine Wrath, etc. I believe in existence, because that's all we have, everything is united, and maybe that totality is itself divinity, or maybe there is some pure "being" and the world is a manifestation and process of struggle to achieve or participate in that state of pure being. But other than that, my best guess is that when we die, that's it. The world goes on, as it has for billions of years, without me. How fortunate am I to have existed at all, to have had the ability to breathe, eat, plant, swim, love, hate, and use all my powers to exist for a brief moment in this world, and hopefully, I will have taught someone, somewhere, to appreciate that as well, and so goes the world, maybe forever, maybe not. I don't know if there is a god, but I'm pretty sure that the idea of hell is one of the darker creations of human psychology, and the fact that we can live every day very happily and not take hell seriously, tells me that it doesn't exist, except as a projection of our fears and worst cruelties. If being human has taught me anything, it's that the greatest achievement is redemption, to become aware of who and what you are, and not be a slave to ignorance and error. I believe that is possible for the worst murderer in prison, and I have no interest in seeing them burn in an everlasting fire. Their failures are not only theirs, but ours, as humanity, and as long as we continue to exist, their redemption is our redemption.

[Guest]

Happy new year pham. Thanks for the reply. Respect. God bless.

[Socrates]

how do you reconcile what you've just written with your belief that people must be punished in order for their to be justice in the world? if god forgave hitler, then what is your reaction? is that justice overturned or the perfection of justice?

 

god knows that i'm not a christian. if i was a christian i'd be living a very different life.

 

If there was no hell that sinners deserve on account of justice, Christ's redeeming sacrifice would make no sense.

 

Christ could forgive even Hitler, but Hitler would have to sincerely repent and turn to Christ first.

(And as Catholics, we believe that even if you're saved, you must still suffer temporary punishment for sins in this life or purgatory before entering heaven.)

 

And if everyone is automatically saved regardless of whether they repent and accept His mercy, then His words warning us against hell, and telling us what we must do to avoid it would be nonsensical and wasteful.  (For example, see the parable of the sheep and goats - Matt. 25:31-46)

 

If you're Christian, you should believe and heed what Christ taught.  But if you don't believe in Christ as Savior, it's pointless to argue about who He does and doesn't save.

Edited January 4, 2015 by Socrates

[Swami Mommy]

I'm of the opinion that when we feel ourselves out of alignment with our highest capacity for Love then we're in a state of hell, which is the mistaken belief that we are separate from the Source within ourselves. I don't believe in a punitive God. We are the judges our own inner states, and at our deepest level we always know when we have chosen to believe in separation over union with God, at least in our heart and mind, though never at the soul level. At the soul level, we are forever an inseparable part of the Oneness that is God.

Edited January 6, 2015 by Swami Mommy

[RoseOfGuadalupe]

God didn't create Hell. Demons did.

[MarysLittleFlower]

We have free will to love God because love is a choice and comes from the will.

God gave us free will not to sin but to love. Sin doesn't lead to freedom anyway since freedom is the Divine Will not ours. We have a choice but God wants us to choose Him.

He saw that not all would choose Him and Jesus grieves for every lost soul.

Hell was made before there were humans it was made for the fallen angels and God saw there would be humans who would sadly reject Him. He wants all to be saved though and gave His life to redeem us and make Heaven possible for us.

In Heaven we will understand these things more fully but the Church teaching explains a lot

Souls in hell are trying to run from God, His presence in Heaven would be even greater torture - so their only place is hell. Its painful because of loss of God and presence of the demons.

Each soul is judged rightly.

Is hell a place or condition? Some Saints saw hell and wrote about it. For example St Faustina. In the Apocalypse we also read of the lake of fire where the soul and body of the lost would go after the general Resurrection.