Action Required: Peter And The Papacy

[Guest JeffCR07]

long or not, that stuff is good

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='Mickey's_Girl' date='Jun 11 2004, 02:42 AM'] Cmom:

That is a very cool piece of info. Can you give me a source for that (and maybe some surrounding information?)? Online or book is fine.

Rock on!

MG [/quote]
[url="http://www.ccel.org/fathers2/ANF-01/anf01-05.htm#P171_20841"]http://www.ccel.org/fathers2/ANF-01/anf01-05.htm#P171_20841[/url]

[cmotherofpirl]

Read the bold section and notice the refeence to keys.
The Prophesy of Isaias

Chapter 22

The prophet laments the devastation of Juda. He foretells the deprivation of Sobna, and the substitution of Eliacim, a figure of Christ.

1 The burden of the valley of vision. What aileth thee also, that thou too art wholly gone up to the housetops?

2 Full of clamour, a populous city, a joyous city: thy slain are not slain by the sword, nor dead in battle.

3 All the princes are fled together, and are bound hard: all that were found, are bound together, they are fled far off.

4 Therefore have I said: Depart from me, I will weep bitterly: labour not to comfort me, for the devastation of the daughter of my people.

5 For it is a day of slaughter and of treading down, and of weeping to the Lord the God of hosts in the valley of vision, searching the wall, and magnificent upon the mountain.

6 And Elam took the quiver, the chariot of the horseman, and the shield was taken down from the wall.

7 And thy choice valleys shall be full of chariots, and the horsemen shall place themselves in the gate.

8 And the covering of Juda shall be discovered, and thou shalt see in that day the armoury of the house of the forest.

9 And you shall see the breaches of the city of David, that they are many: and you have gathered together the waters of the lower pool,

10 And have numbered the houses of Jerusalem, and broken down houses to fortify the wall.

11 And you made a ditch between the two walls for the water of the old pool: and you have not looked up to the maker thereof, nor regarded him even at a distance, that wrought it long ago.

12 And the Lord, the God of hosts, in that day shall call to weeping, and to mourning, to baldness, and to girding with sackcloth:

13 And behold joy and gladness, killing calves, and slaying rams, eating flesh, and drinking wine: Let us eat and drink; for to morrow we shall die.

14 And the voice of the Lord of hosts was revealed in my ears: Surely this iniquity shall not be forgiven you till you die, saith the Lord God of hosts.

15 Thus saith the Lord God of hosts: Go, get thee in to him that dwelleth in the tabernacle, to Sobna who is over the temple: and thou shalt say to him:

16 What dost thou here, or as if thou wert somebody here? for thou hast hewed thee out a sepulchre here, thou hast hewed out a monument carefully in a high place, a dwelling for thyself in a rock.

17 Behold the Lord will cause thee to be carried away, as a pickle is carried away, and he will lift thee up as a garment.

18 He will crown thee with a crown of tribulation, he will toss thee like a ball into a large and spacious country: there shalt thou die, and there shall the chariot of thy glory be, the shame of the house of thy Lord.

19 And I will drive thee out from thy station, and depose thee from thy ministry.

[b]20 And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will call my servant Eliacim the son of Helcias,

21 And I will clothe him with thy robe, and will strengthen him with thy girdle, and will give thy power into his hand: and he shall be as a father to the inhabitants of Jerusalem, and to the house of Juda.

22 And I will lay the key of the house of David upon his shoulder: and he shall open, and none shall shut: and he shall shut, and none shall open.

23 And I will fasten him as a peg in a sure place, and he shall be for a throne of glory to the house of his father.

24 And they shall hang upon him all the glory of his father's house, divers kinds of vessels, every little vessel, from the vessels of cups even to every instrument of music.

25 In that day, saith the Lord of hosts, shall the peg be removed, that was fastened in the sure place: and it shall be broken and shall fall: and that which hung thereon, shall perish, because the Lord hath spoken it. [/b]

[EcceNovaFacioOmni]

Wow! With all the Scripture and writings from the fathers on this topic, fitting a summary in 300-400 words will be quite an undertaking.

Edited June 11, 2004 by thedude

[cmotherofpirl]

more:

The disciple of the Apostles, St Clement of Rome narrates concerning the perpetuation of the hierarchical powers by the Apostles."In countries and towns they preached and appointed their neophytes after they have proved them,these in spirit, as bishops and deacons of the future faithful (Cor42, 4)."Our Apostles through the Lord Jesus Christ knew that disputes would arise about the episcopal office. For this reason, as they had recieved exact knowledge of this in advance, they appointed the above named, and subsequently gave directions that when these should fall asleep, other men should take over their duties." (Cor 44, 1-2) [Ott]

The primacy was conferred when Christ, after His Resurrection, gave the mandate to Peter, after the threefold assurance of His love: Feed my lambs! Feed my sheep! Here as in Mat 16:18 the words are directed solely and immediately to Peter. The"lambs" and the"sheep" designate Chgrist's whole flock, that is, the whole Church. [cf John 10] "Feed " in ancient and biblical language means, in its application to human beings, rule or govern [cfActs1 :15]. By Christ's thrice-repeated mandate, Peter obtained, not re-appointment to the Apostolic Office- he did not lose this thru his denial - but the supreme power of government over the Church.
[Ott]


St Ignatius calls Rome "the presiding Community" and the "overseer of love."[Ott]

St Irenaeus says" If one wishs to know the true Faith, then it suffices to ascertain the teaching of this one Church, as it is handed down through the sucession of her bishops. For to this Church, on account of her more powerful principality every Church must agree, that is, the faithfil everywhere; in other words, in this community the apostolic tradition is always preserved by those who are from everywhere, that is, from heretics [Adv Haer III 3;2][Ott]

Papal Legate Phillipus at the Council of Ephesus(431) declared"This Peter lives and passes judgement up to the present day, and for ever, in his sucessors.[Ott] Edited June 11, 2004 by cmotherofpirl

[dUSt]

Well, the scripture doesn't count as part of the 300-400 words, as it'll live in a separate section. We'll simply reference the scripture in the summary.

[Mickey's_Girl]

CMom and thedude:

You guys ROCK! Thank you SO MUCH! I'm going to save that stuff and go over it again. VERY helpful.

:wub:

MG

[IcePrincessKRS]

[quote name='Cure of Ars' date='Jun 11 2004, 12:36 AM'] Boy, my wife, St. Catherine, is starting to sound like me.


I forgot to log off and back on as myself. [/quote]
I didn't know she was your wife.... cooooool!

[Cure of Ars]

[quote name='IcePrincessKRS' date='Jun 11 2004, 03:41 PM'] I didn't know she was your wife.... cooooool! [/quote]
Yep four years this month.

[IcePrincessKRS]

Happy Anniversary!

[Winchester]

It was once commonly understood that when a king left his kingdom, there was appointed a steward. He held the keys to the kingdom. Christ left His kingdomon earth until His return. Peter was the original steward.

[Cure of Ars]

The Church is the pillar and foundation of truth. (1 Tim 3:15) To stand firmly on this foundation one needs to understand Peter’s role in the Church. By understanding the Papacy you will be better able to do spiritual battle for the kingdom of God.

Keys to the Kingdom

Jesus is the Messiah, which means that he is King. Peter infallibly pronounced Jesus as the Messiah when the disciples were unclear about who Jesus was. (Matt 16:16-17) Jesus in return gave Peter the “keys to the kingdom” with the authority to “bind and loose”. (Matt 16:19) It was once commonly understood that when a king left his kingdom, there was appointed a steward who held the keys to the kingdom. (see Isaiah 22:22) The successor of Peter –John Paul II- now holds the keys to defend the kingdom from its enemies.

This Rock

The Messiah promised that the Church would be victorious. Jesus promised to do this by building the Church on Peter. Jesus said, “You are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of the netherworld shall not prevail against it.” (Matt 16:18) “Peter” means “rock” and Jesus gave this name to Peter to signify the role that he would play in the Church. (John 1:42)

Shepherd

Jesus singles Peter out to be a Shepherd to the entire Church. Jesus tells Peter, “Feed my lambs”… “Tend my sheep”… “Feed my sheep.” (John 21:15-17) He does this to let Peter know that he is to guide, protect, and feed his people as shepherd to the entire Church.

Apostolic Succession

Jesus gave the apostles positions of authority in his kingdom (Luke 22:29) and he gave them the authority to bind and loose (Matt 18:18). One of the first things that Peter did as steward of the church was to fill Judas’ “office”. (Acts 1:15-26) In the same way, the “keys” have been passed from Peter to the present day Pope. No other Church can make a legitimate claim to have the successors of Peter. The Catholic Church can even list the successors of Peter throughout its 2000-year history.



word count 359

[EcceNovaFacioOmni]

I think we should use the Fathers too.

[Cure of Ars]

[quote name='thedude' date='Jun 12 2004, 11:01 AM'] I think we should use the Fathers too. [/quote]
Maybe we should have a church father reference section in the back and just add a sentence that the early leaders in the church confirm the primacy of the bishopric of Rome?

The question then is what should the sentice say that we add?


And what quotes do we use?

[EcceNovaFacioOmni]

I was thinking a whole new paragraph about how early Christians, who followed the teachings of the Apostles, believed that Peter was the Bishop of Rome. We could include just one of the better quotes, and include the others in an index at the end.