Detachment In Rl And Elsewhere.....

[brandelynmarie]

A very delicate balance sometimes...I feel like I have grown up in a world that mainly emphasizes most decisions based solely on personal feelings...Sometimes I'm surprised when it comes out in others, but I'm especially surprised when I notice it in myself! I don't even realize I'm basing my thoughts on something completely on how I feel about it...it's definitely an area to work on :blush:

[Sponsa-Christi]

Yes, very important. There is great confusion about the difference between using feelings as a part of the information we have and either denying them (which is the origin of neurosis) or indulging them.

 

Feelings can be useful in terms of discerning God’s will, but I don’t think feelings are only meant as this kind of means to an end. I think there is a certain inherent goodness in feeling our (properly ordered) feelings even for their own sake, since this is part of how God in His goodness created us as human beings.

 

Even God Himself, when He took on our human nature in the Incarnation, showed that He had real feelings. The example that most readily comes to mind is John 11:35 (“…and Jesus wept.”), but there are many others.

 

The problem is that, like everything else about human nature, our feelings have a tendency to be disordered because of the fall of Adam and original sin. But just because our feelings can be disordered doesn’t mean that they always are; and just because feelings aren’t our be-all and end-all doesn’t mean that they aren’t still a good part of our humanity. 

[krissylou]

I would just like to say that when I read the title to this thread I thought it was RI  and not RL.  I was wondering what "Detachment in Rhode Island and Elsewhere" could possibly be about!  

 

Need more coffee.

 

Detachment *is* very important in Rhode Island.  It is also important elsewhere.  :)

[brandelynmarie]

:hehe:

[inperpetuity]

I would just like to say that when I read the title to this thread I thought it was RI  and not RL.  I was wondering what "Detachment in Rhode Island and Elsewhere" could possibly be about!  

 

Need more coffee.

Your not the only one!

[Credo in Deum]

A prayer I say often is, "God grant me the grace of forgetfulness of self..."...& yes, I believe I am essentially asking Him for the same thing...

 

A prayer my priest taught me is, "God grant me the grace to desire what I need, and not to need what I desire."

[das8949]

Yes, very important. There is great confusion about the difference between using feelings as a part of the information we have and either denying them (which is the origin of neurosis) or indulging them.

 

 

According to Dr. Abraham D. Low, neuropsychologist and found of Recovery International (RI), "feelings are not objective facts" and that "they lie and deceive us and tell us of danger when there is none." This fits in with detachment - grasping "God" in all we do and letting go of everything that is not "God." I very much enjoyed Sister Marie's comments.

[brandelynmarie]

To paraphrase Matthew Arnold, feelings are the caboose to the train of faith. The train will move just fine, with or without the caboose. ;)

[BarbTherese]

http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/topic/135309-detachment-in-rl-and-elsewhere/?p=2696599 "Detachment is absolutely being more attached to God's will than anything else but it is not a sterile reality - its a messy and wonderful journey."     

 

Well said, Sr Marie - and I too valued your entire post.  Thank you! :)

Probably one of the most difficult things to detach from is a desire for one's spiritual advancement.  It is a good and positive desire and yet it involves oneself, not purely for God as God, Mystery and The Mystery of His Will and His Glory.  Attachment to one's own spiritual advancement is an attachment to a concept or concepts of some kind or other and very often a root focus on oneself in some way.  This is why I can feel devastated if I fail my own concepts or aspirations. 

Perhaps feelings can only be rightly ordered when one has to go on without their support with Faith in the will the motivation, or when The Lord is in the driver's seat.  It would take probably a very long time (attributing to the often long length of both "Dark Nights" of the saints), but feelings would begin to follow and one can feel safest and even happiest when being directed by Faith in the will as much as feelings might struggle to stay with it all. It is Faith in the will that can be foreign to us as a human journey and feelings need to learn the accuracy of it all as a journey of the highest human aspiration and Peace, Joy.  I think that the mystics do cover it all insofar anyway as the mystics can find words to express the journey accurately.  It is a messy journey probably, very messy, but at the same time a wonderful one as Sr. Marie stated.  I think that the spiritual life (this includes our humanity of course, there can be no separation) is the greatest adventure any person at all can live.  And it is an adventure open to all  - yet what a great blessing and honour, the greatest conceivable, it is to be called to be Catholic!  We have the Sacramental Presence of Jesus and a magnificent and incredibly beautiful theology in all its aspects.
 

http://srhelena.blogspot.com.au/2010/07/what-is-doctrine-of-nada.html

 

St. John left us a sketch to summarize his whole doctrine. The sketch is of Mount Carmel itself. To climb the mount, he drew up paths. Along these paths are both spiritual and natural goods one encounters on the road to life. But all these paths lead to nowhere except one. He drew a narrow path right in the middle of the sketch leading one straight to the summit of the mountain. He wrote "and on this path is NOTHING (nada), NOTHING (nada), NOTHING (nada), and still at the summit NOTHING!"

In the Ascent of Mount Carmel , Chapter II and III, St. John wrote why he used the analogy of darkness to explain his doctrine. First reason, the way to God is dark. Our journey is illumined by faith alone (or should be illumined). Second, the experience of God is darkness to the senses. The purification and purgation necessary for transformation are experienced as darkness by our senses. They are painful to us because they imply detachment and withdrawal from things not purely for God's glory. When God begins to withdraw the soul from the state of beginners to the state of proficients, the sensible part of the soul experiences difficulties and confusion because God is now strengthening the spirit. This is experienced as pure darkness. Third reason, God as the goal of our journey, is Himself darkness to our intellect. We cannot fully comprehend God or the ways of God. Our intellect is finite and cannot possible grasp something infinite. That is why you hear about experiences of Blessed Teresa of Calcutta and St.Therese and many other holy souls. Everything is experienced as pure darkness, the objects of faith and hope are now cast into the dark and cannot anymore shed light to the intellect. At this point, only the WILL to believe, to hope and to love remains.

 

 

Feelings can be like windmills, they can shift in the slightest breeze.  Faith is constant and it is a matter of feelings 'to learn', insofar as one is able oneself, to embrace in the will one's Faith and what Faith tells us.  At first, I don't think that one can do so and so all is darkness and confusion.  It is only Faith and the will choosing Faith, I think, that can guide one through the "Dark Night of The Soul".  It is very much an act of absolute obedience on the part of the will and obedience to what Faith tells us.

[SNJM]

One of my dearest friends, a Carmelite nun, who died too soon, often talked to me about the peace in being open to God's plans and in remembering that truly: "All things are passing." (St. Teresa of Avila)

Her Carmel (very traditional) had many daughter houses and as a result, she had the opportunity to travel - to help set up and "get things going." I had asked her once how she felt about this because as a cloistered nun, you enter with the expectation of living a very routine life, rooted in one place, in community with the sisters you have grown to know, and hopefully - love. Her response has never left my heart: "Oh! Everything comes from God! you have to remember we are just passing through this life. Nothing matters but Him, and wherever you go, if you have Him, you have everything."

I suppose other religions strive for this sense of detachment, but the difference in our Faith is the knowledge that we will have everlasting life, and we have the ability & freedom to find the peace that only Christ can bring!

To me, my conversation with that dear Carmelite nun, was the best example of detachment, and I think it can apply to all people searching to live a life of holiness, not just those in formal religious life. Rose

Edited August 23, 2014 by SNJM