Duggar Engagement

[puellapaschalis]

http://radaronline.com/exclusives/2014/07/jessa-duggar-boyfriend-ben-seewald-slams-catholics-deletes-post-criticism/


ETA: ^That's the stuff he's been saying about Catholics recently.

 

The ignorance is what I found infuriating. Who was it that made the distinction in what people hated: between what the Church is and what people think the Church is?

 

Because!!! The Duggars are, like, the most amazing amesome holiest Christian family EVERRR!!! We should all be JUST like them!!!

 

There's a whole subset of (internet) society that keeps track of the Duggars and similar families and ruthlessly tears them apart at every twist and turn. It's fascinating in a kind of eyes-wide-did-they-really-do-that kind of way; on the opposite side there's often what I see as a major lack of charity and presumption of good will (at least toward the parents' generation).

 

Ugh, the quiverfull movement. Anti-Catholic and can be seriously abusive. It's like anti-contraception protestants gone wrong. 

 

Well they're certainly counter-cultural and they have the courage of their convictions which I admire. Groups like Vision and the IBLP are currently being rocked by sex scandals (Doug Philips, Bill Gothard), which brings some sympathy from me - because we're suffering from the same, only it's been going on longer.

 

There seems to be a connection between Quiverful and Patriarchy (Husband is head of the household, has the final say in everything, and controls to varying degrees everything that happens in his house). I'm not sure if the two can really be separated in these contexts. There's distrust of secular and higher education, homeschooling is almost universal, and wives rarely if ever have careers. Girls especially seem to be incredibly sheltered.

 

I read about these families, I read their critics, and I wonder: if Catholic life and culture had not suffered the way they did in the past 50 - 100 years...would Catholic families look more like these Protestant ones? I mean, they clearly wouldn't be very similar, simply because Catholicism and this Baptist Protestantism aren't very similar. Would more Catholic families 'leave the question of how many children they have up to God'? Avoid being in debt to buy a house? Encourage mothers to stay at home, to the point where they discourage an outside job once children arrive? It's kind of a 'what if'.

 

Of course the Duggars (and the Bates, another big family) are extremes; there aren't many ladies with that kind of hyperfertility. In fact I'd bet there are plenty of ladies in these circles who have below average fertility - can you imagine being in an atmosphere like that, but not be able to get pregnant? But I'd guess the majority would have between five and ten kids - which sounds remarkably like the size of an average Catholic family about a century ago.

[veritasluxmea]

Catholics are to diverse and Theology of the Body is to awe.some to ever degenerate into quiverfull. If the past was different, sure, but we'd be losing more than we gained, and a lot sorrier for it. Patriarchy is a key part of Quiverfull philosophy. 

 

I'm a little hesitant to throw them completely under the bus because the enemy of my enemy is my friend, and I do sympathize with them, but they are to cultish for me to be ok with them. 

[The Bus Station]

Macaroni and cheese

[superblue]

I actually do follow the duggars, sad to say,   more so because I have a really hard time believing that they are just that sunshine full of puppy dog farts happy all the flipping time !  I am waiting for a bad day for them to happen, which I really think for them is nothing more than someone getting a cold, missing giving someone a hug, or I dunno not congratulating someone for a job well done first.

 

Their family values are great,  I guess they are some sort of Christian family, the way they teach their children about courting and dating is great, but I notice the tendency seems to be to get married as soon as possible and get the heck out of the house. Which isn't necessarily a bad thing, I just find that hoping there are more people with that mentality being left in the world few and far in between let alone being an adult and single and living to those standards.

 

I really just find the entire family baffling I would say they are all fake, but after watching a few episodes and keeping an eye for them in the news, they are either truly honest with who they are on tv, or are secretly a cult and have been brain washed to be happy all the time or be shunned from the family and sent to the farthest corners of the earth.

 

More over, if this family is not Catholic does anyone know why ?

[Basilisa Marie]

I'm waiting to see what happens with each kid and if their relationships last.  I don't wish them ill, but the very idea of how they "court" just boggles my mind. 

[ChristinaTherese]

http://radaronline.com/exclusives/2014/07/jessa-duggar-boyfriend-ben-seewald-slams-catholics-deletes-post-criticism/


ETA: ^That's the stuff he's been saying about Catholics recently.

Meh. I've heard (and accepted, since I knew no better and that's what Protestants are taught that Catholics believe) that junk so many times that I just don't care anymore. He's believing what he's been taught, that's all.

[Cherie]

To me, the Duggars seem like a nice family who love God very much. I've met them, I have their book, I think they have a lot of inspiration to offer.

However, I hate the fact that they are upheld as a Catholic ideal of what a family should be. This is very common in certain Catholic circles. The Duggars are not Catholic. They do things according to their Protestant theology. Sure, some things are common between Christians (and families in general) and we can certainly gain some great ideas from them. Their recipe for butterscotch brownies is my go-to for when I need a treat in a pinch.

But this "Catholicization" of Protestantism--holding Protestant ideals as being part of Catholic teaching--is a very bad thing. It's becoming more common in some Catholic circles, and it's common with those who idealize the Duggars as being what "good" Catholics should be. (E.g. women should only wear skirts, courtship should be strictly controlled, you should always be providentialist in regard to family size, etc.) It leads to inbred thinking and rotten fruit.

[Cherie]

Meh. I've heard (and accepted, since I knew no better and that's what Protestants are taught that Catholics believe) that junk so many times that I just don't care anymore. He's believing what he's been taught, that's all.

Yes, I agree it isn't a huge deal, but it's unfortunate that he misunderstands Catholic teaching (just as it's unfortunate that anyone misunderstands Catholic teaching). Hopefully someone set him straight.

[Credo in Deum]

Other than praying for them, I think the best thing we can do to help this family is to stop paying attention to them.

[Ash Wednesday]

Hopefully the Duggar Male Transplant received a Catholic response to what he posted.

 

"I know a lot of _______, but" or "I have a lot of ___________ friends, but" statements never usually end well.

 

 

[puellapaschalis]

Let's take 'the patriarchy movement' for example. Husbands are the leaders of their households in imitation of Christ as the leader of the Church. Of course this can be (and is) abused - people going off on power trips is something we've always had to contend with. But is the notion that the husband is ultimately responsible for his family's well-being and holiness such a non-Catholic one?

 

Ben's screed about the whole faith vs works thing is just a symptom of how badly educated just about everyone is. Still exasperating.

 

 

Hopefully the Duggar Male Transplant received a Catholic response to what he posted.

 

"I know a lot of _______, but" or "I have a lot of ___________ friends, but" statements never usually end well.

 

That is brilliant :D
 

[Basilisa Marie]

No, there's nothing wrong with the husband being the leader and responsible one for the welfare of the family, there's a ton of support for that idea in scripture and tradition. 

 

But it's the way it's carried out, and how women talk their side of things that often rubs me the wrong way. Sometimes it stinks of an attitude that would keep someone in an abusive relationship, for example.  On the other hand, I once had a friend who was Protestant (Baptist I think?) and he and his wife lived that arrangement. He explained that although he had the final say on important decisions, it was his job to make sure that he always carefully considered his wife's needs and desires, and was essentially living a life of sacrifice in service to his family. In this way, I think it can work very well, and quite beautifully. 

 

It's when that view is used to support things like "Women should only be mothers (biologically), women shouldn't go to college and if they do it should only be to find a husband, it's sinful for women to wear pantaloons, it's evil for any women to hold a job, etc." The "patriarchy movement" doesn't weird me out because of the idea of husbands leading their families, it's all the weird junk about women that most often comes with it. 

Edited August 16, 2014 by Basilisa Marie