I'm Sorry, Robin Williams, Suicide Is Selfish

[Credo in Deum]

I am probably going to have another roast beef samich with cheddar cheese for dinner.

 

Don't forget to add some horseradish and bacon. 

Edited August 13, 2014 by Credo in Deum

[Aloysius]

as I said before, one thing in reaching out to people is to let them know you love them and would miss them and would be heart broken, that yes, indeed, their death would hurt you... that's a far cry from calling people who have committed suicide selfish.  

 

when you say that x person committed suicide because they were selfish, what the person with suicidal thoughts hears is "jeez, what is wrong with me, I am such a selfish person having these thoughts"... "man, I'm such a jerk, why do I keep thinking these thoughts"...the nightmarish loop of depression is like quick sand (I repeat again as I thought the analogy in my first post here was quite apt)--that kind of thinking makes self loathing worse.  it is a loop that spirals down into utter despair, and the very worst thing you can do to someone caught in that loop is feed into the way they blame themselves for being in it.

[Lilllabettt]

Im not really aware of average people who committed suicide who gets media attention. I think the large scale reaction to Robin Williams was a result of his fame and not because people wanted to glorify the method of his passing. 

 

 

 

I don't think people who organize public memorials intend to glorify suicide. I'm not sure what happens should be termed "glorifying." Its the power of suggestion to vulnerable minds. 

 

Below represents student newspaper coverage of the suicide cluster that occurred when I was at this particular school. Note that NYU discourages vigils, GWU allowed it.

 

http://www.gwhatchet.com/2004/09/13/nyu-gw-mobilize-to-address-student-deaths/

 

I remember their policy changed while I was there re: vigils as a result of the study they commissioned.

But some things don't stick. 

This past year a student committed suicide in his dorm. They had a book on campus for people to write their remembrances. Hundreds of people, many of whom never knew him personally, waited in a line wrapping around the building and down the block. The University President gave a speech praising him and his professors were quoted in a special section of the student newspaper singling him out as special and worthy.

 

Within a matter of weeks, two more students committed suicide. 

Edited August 13, 2014 by Lilllabettt

[Selah]

Robin Williams' daughter Zelda is taking a break from social media after she was sent hurtful messages about the death of her father.

The actor passed away in an apparent suicide at his home in California on Monday. He was 63. His 25-year-old daughter Zelda issued a tribute to her father on social media following the news and received an outpouring of love and support, but she has now decided to step away from her account

 

 

Source, read more here: http://movies.msn.com/movies/article.aspx?news=882077

Edited August 13, 2014 by Selah

[CrossCuT]

[Anomaly]

and the very worst thing you can do to someone caught in that loop is feed into the way they blame themselves for being in it.

No. The very worst thing you can do is foster their sense of powerlessness and not mattering at all to others. Recognizing selfishness is a step towards recognizing empathy and allowing the possibility others are willing to help you, simply because they care about you already.

[CrossCuT]

Source, read more here: http://movies.msn.com/movies/article.aspx?news=882077

 

So sick. 

[CrossCuT]

There's Nothing Selfish About Suicide

 

 

Suicide is a decision made out of desperation, hopelessness, isolation and loneliness. The black hole that is clinical depression is all-consuming. Feeling like a burden to loved ones, feeling like there is no way out, feeling trapped and feeling isolated are all common among people who suffer from depression.

People who say that suicide is selfish always reference the survivors. It's selfish to leave children, spouses and other family members behind, so they say. They're not thinking about the survivors, or so they would have us believe. What they don't know is that those very loved ones are the reason many people hang on for just one more day. They do think about the survivors, probably up until the very last moment in many cases. But the soul-crushing depression that envelops them leaves them feeling like there is no alternative. Like the only way to get out is to opt out. And that is a devastating thought to endure.

Until you've stared down that level of depression, until you've lost your soul to a sea of emptiness and darkness... you don't get to make those judgments. You might not understand it, and you are certainly entitled to your own feelings, but making those judgments and spreading that kind of negativity won't help the next person. In fact, it will only hurt others.

As the world mourns the loss of Robin Williams, people everywhere are left feeling helpless and confused. How could someone who appeared so happy in actuality be so very depressed? The truth is that many, many people face the very same struggle each and every day. Some will commit suicide. Some will attempt. And some will hang on for dear life. Most won't be able to ask for the help that they need to overcome their mental illness.

 

[CatherineM]

I spent all morning dealing with a friend who attempted suicide last night. She tried to jump off an overpass onto a freeway that she had a bad wreck on three years ago. He life went downhill after that. Chronic pain, depression, job loss, divorce, etc. Luckily she's short and was having trouble climbing over the railing slowing her up enough that a passing trucker was able to tackle her.

She spent 6 total hours in the hospital. They had to release her because there were so many attempts in the last 24 hours that all the hold beds were taken.

Something funny did happen during all this. My husband thought I was dealing with someone from Phatmass this morning, causing me to neglect some scheduled paperwork, and he sent a howling email to Dust saying that Phatmass was harming our marriage. Austin apologized to me, but it goes to show how difficult it can be to live with someone with a mental illness.

[Anomaly]

Until you've stared down that level of depression, until you've lost your soul to a sea of emptiness and darkness... you don't get to make those judgments. You might not understand it, and you are certainly entitled to your own feelings, but making those judgments and spreading that kind of negativity won't help the next person. In fact, it will only hurt others.

Bull spittle.
I've been there. Got the scars and t-shirt.
Unless you've been personally cajoled, begged, asked, guilted, or screamed off the ledge, or have had to do the same for a loved one, don't shut anyone else up because they aren't doing it "right".

[veritasluxmea]

 

Did you know that suicide is contagious?

Yep. A great deal of research has been done on cases spanning the last three hundred years the show that suicide rates spike after a highly publicized suicide – especially when it’s a celebrity suicide.

Does that mean we shouldn’t talk about suicide or Robin Williams? No. It means we should talk about suicide and Robin Williams responsibly.

From the CDC: ASPECTS OF NEWS COVERAGE THAT CAN PROMOTE SUICIDE CONTAGION

• Presenting simplistic explanations for suicide
• Engaging in repetitive, ongoing, or excessive reporting of suicide in the news
• Providing sensational coverage of suicide
• Reporting “how-to” descriptions of suicide
• Presenting suicide as a tool for accomplishing certain ends
• Glorifying suicide or persons who commit suicide
• Focusing on the suicide completer’s positive characteristics

"But Phoebe, they’re basically saying don’t talk about suicide."

No, they’re saying is don’t make it sound attractive. 

An example of what not to do: 

Robin Williams is NOT free.

Edited August 13, 2014 by veritasluxmea

[veritasluxmea]

While suicide needs to be discussed responsibly, I still think it's inappropriate to call him selfish. He, and other people who struggle with suicide, need respect and compassion. 

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=109Q9Vocvc0

Edited August 13, 2014 by veritasluxmea

[blazeingstar]

Bull spittle.
I've been there. Got the scars and t-shirt.
Unless you've been personally cajoled, begged, asked, guilted, or screamed off the ledge, or have had to do the same for a loved one, don't shut anyone else up because they aren't doing it "right".

 

Thanks Anomloy.

 

People handle things in their own way.  The most disturbing thing about this is that I've been told that my way of handling it is not valid.  That I'm somehow wrong, broken, defective or delusional for feeling like I do.  Despite the evidence that I (and others) presented, despite my experiences.

 

I was even dismissed "well, if your friend's dad killed himself, then she did, it's genetic".  yeah, thats why the 3 to 10 times more likely for a child who's parent died by suicide goes for all children, including those adopted and those who loose step parents.

 

I feel like many of the articles posted on my facebook ARE making suicide sound like something at is done by an completely innocent person and has no consequences.  Can a person be deemed innocent in Gods eyes?  Absolutely!!! but is it still a grave sin with affects that may be as bad or greater than other sins?  YES!  Culpability diminishes one's ability to need to make repreation for sins, it dosn't change the affect of sin.  It's like the movie Slingblade.  Did Billy Bob really understand that he was taking a life?  The movie indicates no, he did not.  He was not capable of premeditated murder.  However, he did take a life.  Just like indicated with depression all he wanted was the bad to stop.  It had to stop, and he stopped it the only way he knew how.  The fact is, he killed a person.

 

Just as Catherine pointed out.  Mental illness is real, and it's hard to deal with.  Her husband's rant to dUST/anyone dosn't mean that it can't cause pain.  My friend's skitsophrenic brother's random purchases still cost money.  The sin, the problem, is still there.  What that person can reasobaly be expected to have on them as far as consequence may not be.  But my friend's brother's daughter went without adequite shoes for some time because of how his mental illness affected his ability to handle money.

 

Someone always pays for sin.  

[Lil Red]

Three things I'd like to post. 

 

This article by Simcha Fischer: http://www.ncregister.com/blog/simcha-fisher/what-does-the-church-teach-about-suicide

"It would also behoove us, as Catholics, to educate ourselves about depression and other mental illnesses. We do not believe in a Mental Prosperity Gospel, where God rewards His faithful ones with a sense of well-being and good cheer. A good many of the saints were as close to God as they could come -- Mother Teresa comes to mind -- and yet they struggled constantly against the darkness. Depression and mental illness are not a sign of personal sin, but one of many signs of the weakness we all inherited when Adam sinned."

 

This article from Buzzfeed: 21 Things Nobody Tells You About Being Depressedbzfd.it So you're sad all the time and don't want to do stuff. It's actually way more complicated than that.

 

And this post from my dear friend franny: 

"Who cries when a celebrity dies? [raises hand] Robin Williams was a special dude.

For all the shock tonight, there's a fraction among us who understand -- perhaps even envy his position.

You don't have to understand it for it to be real.

Someone in your life is suffering silently. Maybe even behind a smile, a laugh, a joke. Who is it? How can you touch that person? Can you give him a hug? Can you send her a text? Will you tell her she's not alone? That he's loved? That you care?

Why does it come to this? How does a person arrive at that place? Maybe there aren't words to explain. Does it matter, though, that you understand how someone got to that point? Does that information change your ability to love?

It's true: being friends with someone intimate with depression is tough. Really tough. But they're not asking for you to save them. All you have to do is care. All you need to give is your love.

I consider myself lucky to have made it through to the other side more than once. Depression lies, but it does it SO WELL. We who made it through -- who continue to make it through -- we aren't so shocked. But we're just as sad. And hopefully, anyone who now stands on the other side of that motivation, knows how lucky they are to have survived it.

To each of you who looked death in the face and turned back, thank you. I would have missed you.

To any of you thinking of the same tonight, please reach out. As many times as it takes. Keep fighting. You're worth it. xo."

[Lil Red]

to each of you who have posted here of your own struggles and to those who are reading this who won't post their struggles (or can't):

 

You are loved. You are wanted. I am praying for each of you, by name if I know it. Know that you aren't alone. Please get help if you need it. If you need to talk to someone, please call the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline: 1-800-273-TALK.