Ice_nine Posted September 20, 2014 Share Posted September 20, 2014 wow blaze you are stubborn as all hell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
veritasluxmea Posted September 20, 2014 Share Posted September 20, 2014 wow blaze you are stubborn as all hell As much as I hate that I also can't help admire that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brandelynmarie Posted September 20, 2014 Share Posted September 20, 2014 (edited) While you spoke well, your words are completely meaningless to me. I feel I reserve my charity for those affected by sins, and those who want to repent of their sins. I do not have any charity or empathy for those who so gravely sin against others....God will decided their fate, I worry about those who are on earth who may be affected, not those who are gone.In the Our Father it says "forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us." And in the Beatitudes Jesus said, "Blessed are the merciful for they shall obtain mercy." We are shown what we need to do... Ask God for these graces, Blaze. We all need forgiveness & we all need mercy. Forgiveness doesn't make what someone does right. It sets you free...Peace be with you... Edited September 20, 2014 by brandelynmarie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blazeingstar Posted September 20, 2014 Author Share Posted September 20, 2014 In the Our Father it says "forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us." And in the Beatitudes Jesus said, "Blessed are the merciful for they shall obtain mercy." We are shown what we need to do... Ask God for these graces, Blaze. We all need forgiveness & we all need mercy. Forgiveness doesn't make what someone does right. It sets you free...Peace be with you... You're right, forgiveness dosn't make something right. I'm not talking about forgiveness. I'm not going out and beating suicidal people, nor preventing them from getting help. Nor would I to someone who is a drug addict. But it has to be of their own volition to make the decision to change. Forgive us our trespasses....the sins we acknowledge and ask for forgiveness for. Not the sins we hold to and don't ask for forgiveness for. And also you can forgive what a sin has done to you without loosing the utter repulsion for it. I have plenty of mercy, for those affected by sin. For those in sin who are choosing not to leave it, for whatever reason, weither it be addiction, a consequence of mental illness, a consequence of mental differences...they all are a persons responsibility. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maggyie Posted September 20, 2014 Share Posted September 20, 2014 Blaze what you've posted is very scary. The Our Father does not say "as we forgive those who are sorry for their trespasses against us." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lilllabettt Posted September 20, 2014 Share Posted September 20, 2014 well this is slightly off topic but as a matter of fact, Christians are not required to forgive people who are not sorry for their transgressions. It may be self-defeating for any kind of human being to not forgive another, regardless of contrition. Forgiveness has important psychological benefits, after all. Withholding forgiveness may be imprudent given that people can not truly "know" whether the other person is actually sorry or not - particularly in the case of suicide, where that other person has passed beyond the veil. But God Himself does not forgive people who are not sorry. Being sorry is a pre-requisite for forgiveness. The good Lord does not ask us to do what He Himself will not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norseman82 Posted September 20, 2014 Share Posted September 20, 2014 well this is slightly off topic but as a matter of fact, Christians are not required to forgive people who are not sorry for their transgressions. It may be self-defeating for any kind of human being to not forgive another, regardless of contrition. Forgiveness has important psychological benefits, after all. Withholding forgiveness may be imprudent given that people can not truly "know" whether the other person is actually sorry or not - particularly in the case of suicide, where that other person has passed beyond the veil. But God Himself does not forgive people who are not sorry. Being sorry is a pre-requisite for forgiveness. The good Lord does not ask us to do what He Himself will not. I do have to agree with this. Contrition is required for us to receive forgiveness in the sacrament of Confession/Penance/Reconciliation, so if we require contrition of those we forgive, we are only acting by the standards the Church requires of us. However, that does not excuse BS's cruel and monstrous comments both in this thread and elsewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brandelynmarie Posted September 20, 2014 Share Posted September 20, 2014 (edited) I do have to agree with this. Contrition is required for us to receive forgiveness in the sacrament of Confession/Penance/Reconciliation, so if we require contrition of those we forgive, we are only acting by the standards the Church requires of us. However, that does not excuse BS's cruel and monstrous comments both in this thread and elsewhere. .. I partially agree. :) Forgiveness, to be total & complete & bring back everyone into relationship, requires the goodwill & consent of all parties involved. However, one may forgive & let go...And this does not necessarily mean re-entering into relationship. In my own experience, I have asked for & been given the grace to forgive others who have gravely harmed me by their actions. I am no longer in relationship with them. I pray for them. And I am at peace...which is what forgiveness can do for us on our side when confronted with others' sinful & evil actions. Edited September 20, 2014 by brandelynmarie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ice_nine Posted September 20, 2014 Share Posted September 20, 2014 well this is slightly off topic but as a matter of fact, Christians are not required to forgive people who are not sorry for their transgressions. It may be self-defeating for any kind of human being to not forgive another, regardless of contrition. Forgiveness has important psychological benefits, after all. Withholding forgiveness may be imprudent given that people can not truly "know" whether the other person is actually sorry or not - particularly in the case of suicide, where that other person has passed beyond the veil. But God Himself does not forgive people who are not sorry. Being sorry is a pre-requisite for forgiveness. The good Lord does not ask us to do what He Himself will not. I don't really buy that theory tbh. Seems like a cop out. God is perfect so His requirements and standards for us to reconcile ourselves to him coud be different from reconciling ourselves to one another. There are a few gospel passages that seem to show forgiveness and mercy on our part is imperative for our salvation and I don't see any stipulations as to whether the receiver of that is contrite or not. Also hasn't God, by Christ's death and resurrection, forgiven the entire world? That's not to say that everyone is saved but that it's become a matter of reconciliation than forgiveness. I think I've heard that from theology types before, could be wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lilllabettt Posted September 20, 2014 Share Posted September 20, 2014 Like I said, forgiving people who are not sorry can be a good thing. It can be both helpful and meritorious. But there is no positive moral obligation to do so. Jimmy Akin on the subject: http://www.holynameofmaryparish.com/documents/Limits%20of%20Forgiveness.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blazeingstar Posted September 20, 2014 Author Share Posted September 20, 2014 I do have to agree with this. Contrition is required for us to receive forgiveness in the sacrament of Confession/Penance/Reconciliation, so if we require contrition of those we forgive, we are only acting by the standards the Church requires of us. However, that does not excuse BS's cruel and monstrous comments both in this thread and elsewhere. Awww, did I hurt your feelings norseman? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted September 20, 2014 Share Posted September 20, 2014 What compels you to be so consistently toxic and vile? It is just very weird. I do not think I have seen you act pleasantly in a single thread the whole time you have been here. Does it not weigh you down, being like this every day? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winchester Posted September 20, 2014 Share Posted September 20, 2014 Pull the beam out of your own eye. Use it to smash your computer. Please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winchester Posted September 20, 2014 Share Posted September 20, 2014 While you spoke well, your words are completely meaningless to me. Maybe if you followed the links, you'd understand better. I also recommend using google as a dictionary. It will help you with the larger ones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blazeingstar Posted September 21, 2014 Author Share Posted September 21, 2014 What compels you to be so consistently toxic and vile? It is just very weird. I do not think I have seen you act pleasantly in a single thread the whole time you have been here. Does it not weigh you down, being like this every day? Meh. I've actually been here since the beginning of Phatmass. My feelings on this were formed when I was very young, and by many suicides. They aren't going to change. I first had to wrap my head around the idea of suicide at 7....by activly trying to prevent my best friend's mom who was raising me to stop....she was convinced that suicide could be accomplished by ingesting stuff.....pills, sharp objects, various household chemicals, but it's neither here nor there. They were cemented as I grew older and experianced life as an adult. I'm married, with friends, active in my parish, popular with my students (they go out of their way to tell my boss I'm doing a good job) and more co-workers know my name than I know theirs. I have friends whom I like and most have children that, when identifying me by surprize, will come running towards me with exclimations of joy. Not sure why all of you find me so horrendously bad. I've actually spoken with my husband this entire thread and he agrees with my point. He's pretty mellow tho and dosn't have the life experiences I do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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