I'm Sorry, Robin Williams, Suicide Is Selfish

[Socrates]

Looks like I once again missed the drama. I largely stayed away from the obscene media circus surrounding Robin Williams's unfortunate death.  However, did catch on the radio some quotes from some pieces which rationalized/romanticized Mr. Williams's suicide as something to the effect of being the natural reaction of a brilliant, sensitive soul to the cruel meaninglessness of human existence, blah, blah.  I think there's unfortunately an element of our increasingly nihilistic pop culture which romanticizes and glamorizes death and suicide - especially of celebs.  

 

We should reserve the judgment of this man's soul to God alone.  Neither, however, should we be quick to excuse or justify his suicide.  Objectively, the taking of one's own life is not brave or romantic, but a horrible thing, and gravely evil, and certainly does not give a good example to those living.  Mental illness and such may lessen or remove culpability, but God alone knows the truth of the matter.

 

This is not the time for judging or debate, but for quiet prayers for Mr. Williams's soul, and that we may have the grace of a holy death.

 

Thus endeth my contribution to this thread (which, imho, should also be laid to rest).

[Lil Red]

 

This is not the time for judging or debate, but for quiet prayers for Mr. Williams's soul, and that we may have the grace of a holy death.

 

and for the souls of all who commit suicide:

 

Bless, O God of eternal life,
all who have died
by their own hand.
Grant them peace
from their inner turmoil
and the compassion of your love.
Comfort those who mourn
their loved ones.
Strengthen them to face the questions of pain,
the guilt and anger,
the irreparable loss.
Help us to reach out in love
to others who prefer death
to the choices of life
and to their families who grieve.
Amen.

[CatherineM]

I've been asked to write an article about the suicide for the Western Catholic.  Not an easy article to write.

[Amppax]

Just want to say thanks to all who contributed thoughtful remarks, especially those who've suffered with depression. Really gave me a lot to reflect on in the wake of this. 

[faithcecelia]

My mother has severe depression and has had for over 30 years. Every single day for those 30+ years she has wanted to end her own life, and twice (as far as I know its only twice) she has made a serious attempt to do so. Keeping the maths simple, she has wanted to die for 11,000 days, and 10,998 of those days she has resisted the temptation to do so. How many of us can honestly say we have resisted temptation so often? I don't see her 2 suicide attempts as selfish, and never did even at the time, rather I see every other day as a sign of her courage and strength. She will always be ill; she is medicated and has a fantastic psychiatrist but she will no more be cured of the depression than she will of her diabetes. I hope and pray she will not make a third attempt to take her own life, but if it should happen I know its not a selfish act but a desperate one.

[LittleWaySoul]

actually, I don't think that the thread title is so appalling.

I'm entirely open to the idea that suicide itself is a selfish act, on an objective level.

It does not necessarily follow that people who commit suicide are themselves selfish.

Different things. 

[LittleWaySoul]

All right. You know what? I wasn't going to post anything, other than the one thing I did, mostly because I am triggering all over the beaver dam place right now, and I pray to God my father doesn't stumble onto Phatmass to find I posted, because he's still concerned for my well being, which , no poo, he should be.
 
Blazingstar. I am going to let you, and everyone on this forum in on a little secret.
 
I tried to kill myself last month.
 
I drove to the bridge and started to climb it Eventually police were called and I was taken to the hospital and evaluated. This all came after a series of things, one after another, piling up on top of me. Let me tell you about that morning. How do you think it went? Did I wake up one morning and say to myself, "golly gee, a swim in the river sounds amesome right about now"? Did I do what I did because I wanted to spite people?
 
No. To both. I wasn't thinking. Like, at all. My mind was a fog. I couldn't even hear myself think. I collapsed on the floor, crying hysterically, and called the suicide hotline. Nothing they said even made sense to me. Why? Because, my brain had shut off. Everything, including pain and warning sensors, shut off. 
 
I threw my phone at the wall, got in my car, parked in a drugstore parking lot, and just walked to the bridge. Everything was a fog. I wanted the pain to stop. I didn't even want to die. I just. wanted. it. to. stop. No logic could pierce through me. No rational ideas could get to me. Not even my own family could get through to me. 
 
In a way...I was already dead.
 
Then I was taken away to the hospital and sat in a room for hours on end. It wasn't until later in the day that my brain "woke up" and realized, oh croutons, I tried to kill myself. Up until that point, I probably would have tried it again. 
 
My point is...you cannot always bring logic into this. It's easy to call it selfish; but honestly, how can it be a selfish choice when we are incapable of even making simple decisions such as getting up in the morning? It's a choice in the same light as an allergic reaction is a choice. It's the result of a disease. No, no, don't hear me wrong; in no way am I glamorizing suicide. It's tragic, and I am saddened by this recent news of Robin Williams passing. Quite frankly, though, by the time he got to the point of hanging himself, he probably couldn't hear himself think. He lost his fight with this sickness. That calls for compassion. Those of us with depression and bipolar disorder are haunted; memories of things that happened three years ago will come back to us. You can say "it's distorted" until you are blue in the face, but again; depression isn't logical. It's just not. 
 
So I am going to share with you all something that Nash, a DJ on Radio Dead Air (look it up) said. This is what someone with depression needs to hear.
 
It's not your fault. 
 
It's not. This isn't you.
 
You aren't your illness.
 
You are a good, special, loving, kind, intelligent person.
 
And yes, get them help. It's gonna smell of elderberries, because the battle to getting better smells of elderberries. But at the end of the day...this sickness I have, you have...
 
It's no more your fault than having cancer is a cancer patient's fault.
 
Depression is not your fault. Bipolar disorder is not your fault.

Thank you so much for posting this, Selah. You are in my prayers. :amen:

[LittleWaySoul]

A preface:

 

Lately, I've discovered something unique and quirky about myself: almost every single solitary disagreement or debate I come across I see as being easily solved with an increase in precision of language. For example: in this thread, everyone's debating the selfishness or unselfishness or whatever of Robin Williams' suicide. One of the biggest issues I see here is an ambiguity in the word "selfish." Blaze is right: every sinful act *is* selfish, in some way. Suicide is selfish, in that when you choose that path, you are thinking only of yourself (so, in the extremely literal definition of the word-- self-ish). I've always maintained that depression itself is a selfish illness. Not in that those who suffer from it are selfish people, but that when you're severely depressed, you can't think of anything else. So, in this situation, I'm using the word to mean something completely and utterly void of negative connotation, something that literally means "thinking mostly of things having to do with oneself." Does that make sense? 

 

But MOST connotations of the word "selfish" are negative in nature, which is why, I think, calling suicide or depression "selfish" can be so, well, insensitive. Even above, when I said, "depression is a selfish illness," I mentally winced because of the overwhelming negative connotation the word has. But it doesn't always have to mean something negative.

Now I'm not saying that Blaze had the same conception of the word as I just described above or that this all could have been avoided with such a clarification, but I am saying that there have been many things said in this thread that could benefit from this distinction. Now, with that out of the way...

 

I do think that the articles online popping up on facebook (that I've blocked) are going to cause cluster type suicides....especally the meme of the genie.

 

This sentence, right here, I agree with 100%. The genie meme is insidious and not at all helpful to those struggling with depression and/or suicidal ideation (READ THIS ARTICLE PLEASE-- IT'S IMPORTANT). But here's the thing: I don't think anyone in this thread is denying that.

 

No one thus far has ever come out and said, "I think glorifying suicide is good. It's definitely a brave decision."

 

No one.

 

What people are saying is that while we shouldn't praise Robin's action, we also shouldn't call it selfish (read: negative-connotation-type-selfish). As per usual, the best solution lies somewhere in between. He was clearly going through immense suffering, and, as many of those who have experienced this first-hand (myself included) have testified, it's not quite so cut and dry when you're the one who's experiencing what Robin likely went through in his final hours.

 

Depression, bipolar disorder, mental illness... they twist everything about the way you think and see the world. When you're about to kill yourself, you probably see it as selfless because you think the world would be better off without you. You aren't thinking of anything else, you can't think of anything else, but your pain.

 

 

 

TL;DR--

1. CLARIFY YO TERMS, LIKE, A LOT

2. SUICIDE ISN'T TO BE PRAISED, BUT THOSE WHO PERISH FROM IT SHOULDN'T BE SHAMED, EITHER

 

And finally, for anyone who might be reading this who needs it:

The National Suicide Prevention Hotline is 1-800-273-8255. 
You can also talk to someone online at this address: http://www.suicidepreventionlifeline.org/
Please, please call or contact if you are thinking about suicide. 

[LittleWaySoul]

Here's what we should say to Mr. Williams now... because what we say to and about Mr. Williams, we say to and about all those who suffer from depression (language warning, but under the circumstances I say we should leave it up) :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GtkST5-ZFHw

Somewhat off-topic, but thank you for posting this video. It's probably one of my favorite scenes in any movie I've ever seen, and it's so relevant. Goodness, that whole movie is beautiful. Just, thank you.

 

Anyway, continue thread.

[CrossCuT]

I love ASAP Science among many other fun science sites and youtube channels available!

 

http://youtu.be/GOK1tKFFIQI

[veritasluxmea]

 

Thought this was interesting. 

[LittleWaySoul]

I love ASAP Science among many other fun science sites and youtube channels available!

 

http://youtu.be/GOK1tKFFIQI

 

 

 

Thought this was interesting. 

 

 

Thank you both for these.

[blazeingstar]

I was now made aware that he killed himself nearly in the same way that  his character in "Father of the year" set up the accidental death of his son.

 

In this movie the father glorified the suicide of his son.

 

It's so sad only a few can see this.

[LittleWaySoul]

I was now made aware that he killed himself nearly in the same way that  his character in "Father of the year" set up the accidental death of his son.

 

In this movie the father glorified the suicide of his son.

 

It's so sad only a few can see this.

You do realize that that movie was meant to be somewhat of a satire, right? Have you seen it?

 

Besides, from what I know of the movie, the suicide itself wasn't glorified, Kyle was (as well as Lance [Robin's character], by relation).

Edited August 22, 2014 by LittleWaySoul

[CrossCuT]

I think someone should lock this thread out of respect for Robin Williams since Blazey seems to only care about discussing his death. 

 

A new thread should be made if we want to have a serious depression/suicide discussion.