Anomaly Posted August 14, 2014 Share Posted August 14, 2014 (edited) Insulting people of faith only helps atheists look like basshats.It wasn't meant as an insult. Isn't Catholic teaching suicide is a mortal sin? Assuming entry to heaven after suicide seems delusional to a Catholic perspective. Edit to add: Maybe delusional can be interpreted too harshly for some. Even as an atheist, agnostic, Catholic, or for most of humanity, I don't see suicide as an effective option to find peace outside of this life. Edited August 14, 2014 by Anomaly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aloysius Posted August 14, 2014 Share Posted August 14, 2014 It is well situated in Catholic moral theology... though not of the kind Monseigner Lefebvre, the namesake of that particular poster, would have been all too up on, shall we say, that the mental illness that most often accompanies suicide is a strong mitigating factor for culpability. the post simply said RIP, and there's never anything wrong with the simple prayer for someone, Recquiascat in Pace, Rest in Peace. We always hope for salvation even in the case of suicide. 2282 ...Grave psychological disturbances, anguish, or grave fear of hardship, suffering, or torture can diminish the responsibility of the one committing suicide. 2283 We should not despair of the eternal salvation of persons who have taken their own lives. By ways known to him alone, God can provide the opportunity for salutary repentance. The Church prays for persons who have taken their own lives. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blazeingstar Posted August 14, 2014 Author Share Posted August 14, 2014 It wasn't meant as an insult. Isn't Catholic teaching suicide is a mortal sin? Assuming entry to heaven after suicide seems delusional to a Catholic perspective. Well there's culpability, which basically means that it is a horrible sin but you don't get punished for it. But everyone else on earth does. How fair is that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnightofChrist Posted August 14, 2014 Share Posted August 14, 2014 It wasn't meant as an insult. Isn't Catholic teaching suicide is a mortal sin? Assuming entry to heaven after suicide seems delusional to a Catholic perspective. I find it hard to believe you were referring to your understanding of Catholic teaching on suicide when you said belief in an afterlife is delusional and gives no one solace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lefebvre Posted August 14, 2014 Share Posted August 14, 2014 Well there's culpability, which basically means that it is a horrible sin but you don't get punished for it. But everyone else on earth does. How fair is that? "can diminish the responsibility" =/= "don't get punished" Or not because, ya'know, reasons. Talking points and all that. Ever considered working as a pundit? You can rake in quite a bit of dough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anomaly Posted August 14, 2014 Share Posted August 14, 2014 It is well situated in Catholic moral theology... though not of the kind Monseigner Lefebvre, the namesake of that particular poster, would have been all too up on, shall we say, that the mental illness that most often accompanies suicide is a strong mitigating factor for culpability. the post simply said RIP, and there's never anything wrong with the simple prayer for someone, Recquiascat in Pace, Rest in Peace. We always hope for salvation even in the case of suicide. I get that. Similar to the clumsy way my original point was made, RIP was stated as a fact, not as a prayer or hope or appeal to God, such as "May he rest in peace". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aloysius Posted August 14, 2014 Share Posted August 14, 2014 God is not fair. He is just and merciful. You get the fattened pig slaughtered for you when you return as the prodigal son, even though the other son remained faithful the whole time. You get paid the same wages when you arrive at the end of the day as when you arrive at the beginning. The radical selflessness of God could never be fair in human terms. The selflessness He calls us to in loving others so much that we do not demand vengeance when we are hurt but instead pray for the good of the person who hurt us is the most powerful thing in the world, because it is the only way to break the power of evil. It will all make sense in the light of eternity, in which our lives on earth are but a blink of the eye. Until then, we must do our best to strive for the kind of selfless love that can forgive all injury and pray for those whose actions may have hurt us... acknowledging how much they themselves were victims of that disease should help us a little bit to overcome that sense of anger and hurt and pray for their eternal rest and happiness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aloysius Posted August 14, 2014 Share Posted August 14, 2014 I get that. Similar to the clumsy way my original point was made, RIP was stated as a fact, not as a prayer or hope or appeal to God, such as "May he rest in peace". well I have always understood the "Rest" in "RIP" to be a form of imperative supplication that is the equivalent to saying "May you rest in peace"... I suppose there might be some element of assumption in it... but I think that is generally more of an aspiration than an assumption... in any event, those of us who do believe would do well to say a prayer for the repose of his soul. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lilllabettt Posted August 14, 2014 Share Posted August 14, 2014 She is a pretty fantastic lady, but for me...to say she had the same impact on my childhood as Robin Williams would be a lie. Didn't go to school with no black kids? Didn't go to no black kid birthday parties? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lefebvre Posted August 14, 2014 Share Posted August 14, 2014 I get that. Similar to the clumsy way my original point was made, RIP was stated as a fact, not as a prayer or hope or appeal to God, such as "May he rest in peace". Um, no. It was not "Robin Williams is resting in peace" it was me, telling as it were Robin Williams to rest in peace. I'm not even sure if he's heading up or down, but I'm sad at his death and it's the polite thing to say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blazeingstar Posted August 14, 2014 Author Share Posted August 14, 2014 (edited) "can diminish the responsibility" =/= "don't get punished" Or not because, ya'know, reasons. Talking points and all that. Ever considered working as a pundit? You can rake in quite a bit of dough. No culpibility/lessened culpubility = no punishment/less punishment The point was that someone always pays for the sin. Sometimes it just isn't the person who did the sin. Sorry if I wasn't as spefic as your sensibilities require. Edited August 14, 2014 by blazeingstar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lefebvre Posted August 14, 2014 Share Posted August 14, 2014 (edited) No culpibility/lessened culpubility = no punishment/less punishment The point was that someone always pays for the sin. Sometimes it just isn't the person who did the sin. Sorry if I wasn't as spefic as your sensibilities require. That didn't seem to be your point; which seemed to be "see? see how it isn't fair to those who remain?" as another cannonball in your "suicide is selfish" salvo. I know you're being sarcastic with that apology, but if you don't want people to jump down your throat like you've been complaining about, I recommend you strive for clarity when making your points. Edited August 14, 2014 by Lefebvre Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anomaly Posted August 14, 2014 Share Posted August 14, 2014 but if you don't want people to jump down your throat like you've been complaining about, I recommend you strive for clarity when making your points. Ability to Overcome Desire for Snarky Retort.... Activated. I will try as well. ;). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lefebvre Posted August 14, 2014 Share Posted August 14, 2014 (edited) Ability to Overcome Desire for Snarky Retort.... Activated. I will try as well. ;). xD I walked into that. Bravo. Edited August 14, 2014 by Lefebvre Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aloysius Posted August 14, 2014 Share Posted August 14, 2014 a total lack of culpability would not necessarily mean a total lack of purgatory time, because even if you are not culpable for a bad action you do, that action still does damage to your soul and that damage needs to be repaired. purgatory is meant to repair damage. however, the recuperative dimension to purgatory can hardly be described as "punishment", I would only use the term "punishment" for those elements of purgatory meant to repair your will that was damaged by an act of evil committed with intention for which you were culpable. So yeah, there's no punishment for something you're not culpable for, but there can sometimes be some difficult or painful medicine that is needed. Of course, as we often say, our suffering on earth can take away time in purgatory... I think of that this way: upon going to purgatory, you are suddenly enlightened to the meaning of the suffering you have already gone through, retroactively making that suffering that is already a part of the fabric of your being--which is present to you completely as you are no longer bound by the constraints of time--something restorative and healing. I am sure there was some suffering in Mr. Williams life, and if he went towards heaven, (which, while we hope for in the case of all, it is not guaranteed in the case of any) then I am sure that suffering was touched by God on his way and made into something salvitic and reparative for him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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