I'm Sorry, Robin Williams, Suicide Is Selfish

[maximillion]

 

 

Yeah, well I make these decisions for myself. 

 

No one is suggesting otherwise, but just because you have made these decisions does not mean you have the monopoly on the truth about suicide, and your reference to this stuff affecting you since you were aged seven makes me even more of the opinion that this is based on hurt.

 

 

 

I don't think I've been hurt at all. 

 

 

So it does not hurt to know your friends/relatives killed themselves? It does not hurt to watch his daughter 'going through hell'..........I think you do hurt, it is actually pretty obvious, not only that but not to be hurting over this would mean you were pretty inhuman, and I know you are not!

 

However, Blaze, I am not going to get into it with you about it. You have your opinions and you obviously hold them very strongly - for whatever reason.

It seems Robin Williams death has made us all sit up and take notice in our own way, including being appalled by some of the stuff on social media ( which I am too).

[Anomaly]

An action can be inherently selfish by definition. It is an act that does not consider OR dismisses the effect to others.

Whether or not the person considering or accomplishing suicide intentionally dismisses or intentionally ignores the effect on others is an entirely different matter.

IMHO, it is counterproductive and harmful to not openly discuss the effects of suicide on family, loved ones, friends, or strangers out of fear of being "rude". A recent blog post from a dear loved one, my daughter, talking about her two failed attempts:

"But we need to start talking and to be open to listening. Together, we can make it less terrifying for people share these struggles with others. We can take down this wall of stigma, one brick at a time, every time we generate a conversation about mental illness. We can change the idea that talking about depression is "rude", or "weird", or "weak"..

We just have to keep talking about it.

I chose to share the raw version if my story - unfiltered, unedited - in the hope that it will inspire others to share about themselves. To start a conversation. Maybe even strike someone at the right moment, and convey the message: You are not a freak. You are not alone. You are not without hope.
I have survived and so will you.
And I am never, ever going to stop talking about it."

I am not afraid to let her know how painful her death (or anyone considering suicide) would be to me and her mother because it may sound rude or inappropriate. So painful for the rest of our lives that I will endure anything else, and beg her to consider how much she is not alone. There are many people that would grieve for her and given the opportunity, would try to help battle the demons. Maybe that is selfish of us as well. So be it.

Edited August 14, 2014 by Anomaly

[Aloysius]

of course no one said not to talk about its affect on people, especially as a reason why it should not be done.  but I find it hard to reconcile the part of your post where you insist on continuing to use the word "selfish" and the quote about tearing down the stigma... from my perspective, leveling judgments like "selfish" that very clearly do not account for the mental disorder because they imply some fault in the individual is an extreme example of the way that stigma is created--people are made to feel shamed, feel weak, feel like there's something wrong with them, that their depression and their thoughts of suicide come from some selfish (which can easily be connected to self-centered) perspective... rather than what they are, which is a disorder you need to work through and get help for.  I mean if using words like "selfish" is not central to that stigma around talking about these things, I can't imagine what would be.

 

So to add on to whoever might be reading this that it might strike at the right time: You are not a freak. You are not alone. You are not without hope.  You are not just being selfish or self centered, you are not just being weak.  This is not your fault, and your loved ones will understand that.  It's not your fault.  Find someone to talk to.  It's been posted before on this thread, but again, 24/7, here's the suicide hotline you can call 1-800-273-8255.  

[Anomaly]

Seriously yo, you cray cray like fo real g.

I kinda thought Blaze is commenting and opinionating on an apparent acceptance and justification, "by some", in Robin's case, on social media. Not everyone has the superpower of being pithy.

I'll consider both perspectives and opinions, waiting for my own pithiness to power up.

[CrossCuT]

Umm.  People had a few things about Maya Angelo but not nearly as much.  Shirley Temple died this year.  The nanny from the brandy bunch, Casey Casem.  Last year Paul Walker (Fast and Furious, very young), Margaret Thatcher, Tom Clancy.

 

We don't hear about them very much.

 

The young Glee star committed suicide last year also.  People were much more careful not to glorify him the same way Robin Willims is being now.  The actors, all with their own pain, were very careful in the media.  They were very careful with the show that's still running.  I didn't see any "you're free" sort of nonsense and articles about that young man making a "brave" decision.

Most of us on here had the majority of our childhood in the 90s when Robin Williams released a ton of films that we watched. We grew up seeing him on our screens, laughing at this jokes, crying during the sad scenes, and joining in his triumphs! (like when peter pan told captain hook to NEVER RETURN!! :) )

 

The people you mentioned are a far cry from the impact that Robin had. So they dont compare. 

[CrossCuT]

IMHO, it is counterproductive and harmful to not openly discuss the effects of suicide on family, loved ones, friends, or strangers out of fear of being "rude". A recent blog post from a dear loved one, my daughter, talking about her two failed attempts:

 

No one is really opposed to having an intelligent conversation about suicide and mental illness. Its just that this thread was started as flaming  gun loaded with loathsome hook. The outrage is not because we dont want to discuss the real topic, the outrage is because Blazey decided to use a cheap, uncharitable, and thoughtless means of getting peoples attention. 

 

By all means, if you want to have a serious discussion, maybe we can make a new thread and flush this one down the toilet. 

[blazeingstar]

Most of us on here had the majority of our childhood in the 90s when Robin Williams released a ton of films that we watched. We grew up seeing him on our screens, laughing at this jokes, crying during the sad scenes, and joining in his triumphs! (like when peter pan told captain hook to NEVER RETURN!! :) )

 

The people you mentioned are a far cry from the impact that Robin had. So they dont compare. 

 

Hook was my first movie.  But I'm pretty sure Maya Angelou had a bigger impact on the world than that.

[CrossCuT]

She is a pretty fantastic lady, but for me...to say she had the same impact on my childhood as Robin Williams would be a lie. 

[Anomaly]

of course no one said not to talk about its affect on people, especially as a reason why it should not be done. but I find it hard to reconcile the part of your post where you insist on continuing to use the word "selfish" and the quote about tearing down the stigma... from my perspective, leveling judgments like "selfish" that very clearly do not account for the mental disorder because they imply some fault in the individual is an extreme example of the way that stigma is created--people are made to feel shamed, feel weak, feel like there's something wrong with them, that their depression and their thoughts of suicide come from some selfish (which can easily be connected to self-centered) perspective... rather than what they are, which is a disorder you need to work through and get help for. I mean if using words like "selfish" is not central to that stigma around talking about these things, I can't imagine what would be.

So to add on to whoever might be reading this that it might strike at the right time: [font='Open Sans']You are not a freak. You are not alone. You are not without hope. You are not just being selfish or self centered, you are not just being weak. This is not your fault, and your loved ones will understand that. It's not your fault. Find someone to talk to. It's been posted before on this thread, but again, 24/7, here's the suicide hotline you can call [/font]1-800-273-8255.

You are welcome to your personal definition and judgement and stigmatization of the concept of selfish. Selfish is simply being self focused. Too much, it self destructive and isolating. Too little, it is self destructive and isolating.

Ignoring the possibility of considering the degree of selfishness, is in fact contributive to becoming unhealthily selfish.

When one is in the darkest depths of depression, any connection to others, however frail, thin, or painful, may be the last thread to a lifeline. I've personally have been pulled off the edge by feelings of guilt and responsibility for the effects I would inflict on survivors. I acknowledge that not everyone, on either side, may feel it is helpful to offer or grasp that particular thread.

[Anomaly]

No one is really opposed to having an intelligent conversation about suicide and mental illness. Its just that this thread was started as flaming gun loaded with loathsome hook. The outrage is not because we dont want to discuss the real topic, the outrage is because Blazey decided to use a cheap, uncharitable, and thoughtless means of getting peoples attention.

By all means, if you want to have a serious discussion, maybe we can make a new thread and flush this one down the toilet.

Outrage and shutting down is not contributive to a serious discussion. A thoughtful, respectful, and serious response is.

I think the conversation is going rather well. I have my opinions and perspective. I consider it as sometimes equal, superior, inferior, or more accurate than others.

I rarely think my opinion, or others are completely thoughtless. Clueless maybe, but that's probably just my ego.

Blaze and others are making valid points and bringing up things to consider. I personally find no need to dismiss any opinions. I do have the super power to ignore.

[Lefebvre]

To hell with whether you were selfish or not. Rest in peace you brilliant, brilliant man.

[Anomaly]

To hell with whether you were selfish or not. Rest in peace you brilliant, brilliant man.

I think the impact of his suicide matters greatly to those who loved him and are still living. The delusion of an afterlife is no solace to him or others.

[KnightofChrist]

The delusion of an afterlife is no solace to him or others.

Insulting people of faith only helps atheists look like basshats.

[Lefebvre]

I think the impact of his suicide matters greatly to those who loved him and are still living. The delusion of an afterlife is no solace to him or others.

 

Firstly, wasn't there an article posted awhile back stating it was an accidental OD after the tests came in? And I wasn't saying that his death didn't have an impact, my point in that we shouldn't be trying to validate, invalidate, or argue over the manner in which this tragedy occurred. It's pointless, stupid, and does nothing but piss people off and turn Robin Williams into an angry talking point over a larger issue. We should just be sad the man is gone and celebrate his life and legacy.

 

Also, I thought the afterlife being a point of solace was a crutch for you people? People hold onto religion/an afterlife because they can't accept the totality of death blah blah blah etc.

Edited August 14, 2014 by Lefebvre

[Aloysius]

seriously.  even if you are an atheist you should acknowledge that belief in an afterlife certainly does give solace to people... right?  I mean, that's pretty self evident, isn't it?  Even many of my friends who are atheists, when someone close to them has died I have seen them speak in language regarding an afterlife... they probably don't believe it all that much, or else they're just not as committed to atheism as they claimed to be, but it certainly gives them solace for goodness sake.  I suppose you may have been merely trying to argue that references to an afterlife might lead people to feel suicide as a justified answer to their problems... so I guess I get that.  But the blanket statement was a little bit diverting from your point because pretty much everyone here finds solace in the belief in an afterlife.

 

Lefebvre, the post about an accidental overdose was about the Glee star.  Robin Williams has been confirmed as an intentional suicide.